Questions to the PVP Players

Hej PvPers

We all want the game a success and i am not against PvP, but i want to wait until i am more developed, having reserves of gold and equip until i give it a try.
And i'm in no haste!!!
Because of that we should allways consider that if we manage to have both playertypes , let's say PvP affiliated and PvE only we have the bigger playerbase at all and that's good for the development and the game itself.

When i played Tabula Rasa i strongly wanted PvP and claim an outpost and don't want others to disturb our Roleplay. I wanted to be able to attack this pink unicorn masked naked dancer when we did a briefing to the soldiers for example.
Later i often feel that if people can avoid PvP it's allways immersion breaking.
But player behavior in AoC and Darkfall let me think over.
I sometimes tend to go full PvP and then i found games where i don't want to PvP
In the first time and maybe do it later but unsure.
Especially in sandbox games i feel i need a lot of time to grind and equip to be competetive.
And because I haven't as much time anymore i tend to focus on the other aspect of games i ever was related to. Roleplay.
And of cause PvP CAN be a very nice option to roleplay!!!

What i want to ask is this.
Can you handle to have allways 'safe' people around and this game is not open ffa PVP?
So you can never 'judge' someone through PvP?
Or do you think that this feature would be awesome and necessary?

Second question is a bit related on what is your answer in one.
Do you want exclusive PvP Zones and maybe NPC City's ( PoT owner already can choose) or are you fine with the consensual PvP idea that everybody can go everywhere with or without beeing flagged for PvP?

I actually don't see an argument for Shardfalls PvP only. Nobody is there to PvP so why threaten the PvE players who strictly don't want to flag pvp?
It's just a waste to restrict these area because this spots are related to lore a lot and could attract roleplayers.

And at this point i am forked because of what i wrote first.
If i want to roleplay there and be disturbed i can attack if PvP is on, but on the other hand i want to roleplay and immerse into the scene and environment and not be harrased by gankers maybe.

Actually i would prefer to make them PvE again and PvP should just be an option to those who want to.
Consensual means no limitation it means everyone, everywhere if he wants to.
Scene restrictions are to me something what is slightly against consensual.
But PvPer s maybe get exclusive content like PvP related sieges or something similar.

What do you think???

 

Quoting myself because you were so kind to make a seperate topic for this.

 

I am not a PvP player but I understand why people love it. And I understand why other people hate it.
I think it is a problem that cannot easily be solved. There will always be players who will never ever participate in PvP. And there will always be players who will not be interested in PvE and just want to have open PvP anywhere.
Introducing incentives to try out PvP will also be a double edged sword. Sure there will be some who will try it out. Out of those, some will like it, others won't. But there will also be players who will get annoyed by this incentive. So basically the incentive will resonate well with only a portion of people and there will always be the danger of annoying the hell out of others.
Just having a few open PvP zones will not satisfy most PvP players and it will also annoy some PvE players, who want to explore every scene "peacefully". So even this idea will resonate well with only a fraction of the players and bring with it the danger of annoying some of the playerbase.
Having to flag for PvP will not please every PvP player as some see it as "immersion breaking". No one should be safe from other players because no one is safe from the monsters in the game. It might be annoying for some PvP players to see other players that simply cannot be attacked.

I still think that the best solution would be to either go all-in and make the whole world open PvP or to introduce a PvP server on which there is open PvP everywhere.

 

I'm not a pvp player but I want it in the game, in some form.

The success of this game will depend on offering multiple forms of play with those forms intersecting at some points.

PvP needs crafters, who need decorators, who need traders, who need gatherers who need guild wars. I see it as being an interdependent environment and don't mind if it annoys the hard core players who have PVP tatooed on their arse.

The game will only ever work, if the whole game works.


For example I would love it if there was a specific, unteachable, rare recipe in a hardcore pvp zone and crafters would pay pvpers for it.

 

@Lord_Darkmoon
I agree to all but the conclusion
I think a PvP Server is no good solution due to the small playerbase.
I think open PvP makes the game too hard an niche to get enough players who support the further development
and as many people stated they say PvP is always consensual and to many this is maybe a cause to buy and support and they would not if they announced it open PvP

@Earl Atogrim von Draken ...this leads me to the point why PvP'ers Game is always limited and restricted because of this early decision and announcement. They sold it as consensual PvP game and because of that i asked the question if PvPers can handle this restriction to never be able to attack everyone everywhere.
What gets me to the question above why have restricted Zones that are PvP only?

But I am still forked about that, maybe this is the best compromise.
Having consensual PvP and PvPers never have the possibility to attack everyone everywhere but on the other hand there are Zones and maybe NPC Cities what cannot entered without flagging.

Still curious about what the others think about it and allways have in mind to find the best compromise to get the biggest possible playerbase.

 

That's the point.
PvE players have to make compromises as well.
Becasue the PvE players have their consensual PvP. To the letter.
Nowhere was mentioned that this comes with no restrictions.
That's just in the heads of the people complaining.

 

People have to get used to it that SotA wants to cater to a larger audience - even I had to get used to it. There will be restrictions and limitations to every aspect of the game. The story and quests which cannot show real consequences, the PvP which won't be as hardcore as some might want it to be. The exploration which takes place on an overland map instead of in an open world.
SotA has to rely on people accepting the limitations. But this is also dangerous. Will people who are really looking for PvP be satisfied with what SotA has to offer? Will people looking for great, deep quests full of twists and real consequences be satisfied with the game?
The question is would it have been better to just cater to a specific audience and create a game they would love?
I can't answer this. Time will tell if people are willing to accept all of the compromises.

 

I fully agree you both.

I think it's better to accept the compromises and limitations as to go hardcore in this or that direction.
Storys allways come to an end, see SWTOR e.g.
Hardcore open PvP is better placed in wide areas and with no instances , like the Map of Agon in Darkfall.

What happens if someone flee out of a scene? Is he attackable on the OW?
I guess not, so isn't it possible to avoid PvP although you are flagged because you always can run away and stay on OW?
To re protect you just need a non PvP PoT with an Oracle or you just hide and go invisible where your offenders cannot follow you, or does
Reveal works on OW?

 

This would create the biggest whining-storm in the history of this game..

// Armar

 

Would drive away too much players.

IMO the only viable solution. Have a pure PvP+ and a PvP- server.

// Armar

 

So, how did this work out, trying to be everybodies "friend"? Like shooting yourself in the knee, maybe?

Look at the forums and you can clearly answer this question. Implementing those half-assed game-mechanics for having pure PvE'ers and pure PvP'lers on the same server without people complaining too much over "the other side" consumes way too much resources which are needed elsewhere.

// Armar

 

I'm a pvp player and I dont like sandbox without freedom like Sota.

In fact, it's just boring and I had no emotion in SotA PvP.

No Risk, No Goal, No Challenge, No War .... NOTHING ....

I can not believe that this guys have created Ultima Online.

 

I'd love to talk about my opinions of how the system should work. But as it stands, with the giant power differentials in players, PvP will remain very niche. Most people flagged right now are only flagged for EXP. As soon as another flagged person outside of their party enters the zone they scatter. With no real 'end-game' some people are just insanely powerful vs 99% of players. THIS is what will keep PvP from growing imo. A lot of people have stated that in MMO's the game never truly starts until you hit level cap or skill cap. After that you can really see who has skill. As it stands, if you want to dominate in PvP, just get higher level. You don't need to be a good player. You just need to be a good grinder.

I mean, like EVERY other MMO has a stopping point for statistical player progress. You can't get higher level. You can't get higher stats. You simply stop progressing numerically. After that, and only after that, will you see truly skill based PvP occur and thrive. If Port wants for players to be that high in power scale, then I hope they are prepared for PvP to pretty much belong to only about ~10 players who can literally wreck everyone else who dares challenge them.

Fix this. Then I think it would be appropriate to talk about where PvP and PvE belong in SotA. Or else PvP will just never fit in the scope of SotA's vision at all.

 

@Armar I think 2 Servers , one PvP one PvE is also not good for the playerbase. If both playstyles accept each other's and the only limitation is is that people who want PvP have to flag, it should be all fine.
Earlier I mentioned to make mirrors of all scenes if PvP flagged or put a 4th selection to the login screen.
MP, MP-PvP, FM, SPO.
For MP-PvP you are allways and everywhere flagged, no need of Oracle etc..., You are even on the OW Map attackable, if on OW a Roving Encounter Map lead you to battle and you cannot leave until 1 minute and while in combat!
You only see people who are in PvP Mode.
Would be like a second server , but still with the option to go PvE or FM, because the character is the same and people are not hard divided.
This would make it possible to grow in PvE or even SPO and go PvP if you want and feel ready to meet the battles and have the thrill.

I for myself have days I want the thrill and the competition other days i am just cooperative and want to be "safe". I like to have the option.

@Abydos true words, thank you. I have a slightly different opinion, but I like the attitude and true speaking!!!!

@Fizzlebang agree although it's a little bit more complicated, but for the basics i have the same opinion as you.

 

Disclaimer: I almost exclusively stick to PVE, because it is less annoying. No need to don pledge garments, restrict what's in your inventory, how it is stacked, etc. I'm too lazy for all that, and it imposes too many restrictions. Also PVP when I tried it didn't cause me any fear, so there was no excitement. Yes, I died a few times and lost some bones that were somehow miraculously replaced, and some inconsequential items that I can't remember. No great loss.

This is why I believe that PVP players who do it for excitement (whether through fear of death or a desire to inflict misery) are first and foremost role players, because there is no genuine danger. It is all in the imagination. Then there are those who treat it as a sport, and are driven to win. They are ego driven, and would probably experience the same feelings playing gustball.

So, given that a large part of PVP is inherently role playing, why is Portalarium making no effort to provide any kind of back story to give a reason for PVP? So far we have had a lot of attention given to locations, but precious little to background lore, and a reason why you might choose to fight others in a particular location.

Maybe Blood Bay will be different.

 

Hi,

i see the playerbase problem, yes. But maybe there wouldnt any playerbase problem if there would had been a real PvP+ server from early on? If i read the forums there is so much energy wasted on all sides, players and devs, just to cope with the problem of PvE and PvP players have very different expectations on how things should work. Look only at the big discussions about the 10% exp gain for PvPers. Then there are quite some game mechanics involved because of this. IMO the concept of making everyone happy on one server under one law/lor doesnt work. You can see it clearly if you read this forums.

I dont see that happening but i see a lot of people who had already been driven away by certain game-design decissions. You will rarely find an old UOer here. And they had been here and backed the compaign. They left or are in hibernation.

Most probably way too exploit prone. You need to write a ton of code just to prevent exploits between the modes. Stuff collected in pure PvP mode shouldnt be available in PvE mode and vice versa. On a PvP+ server i wouls also like to see the possebility of meaningfull sieges. Means: Guilds/Towns/Clans can seige each others and overtake towns or burn them down. Should be extremely hard and costly, but possible.

Please 2 seperate servers and no travel allowed. No Char-Transfer either. Clean slate & Tabula Rasa. Having an extra PvP+ server cant be costly these days....

// Armar

 

Yes. Thats IMO because PvP in SotA is a compromise which caters to no one.

// Armar

 

The forums are just the forums, they usually do not represent the whole playerbase.
A lot of people just play, complaining or not.
Where do they collect 10k $ from while the Theletons?
The suggested 500 playing each day or the let's say 200 active Boardusers?
No, I believe there are more players who are "in".
I can't imagine that 10k$ are coming from just 500 or 1000 active players.
This would mean they orinary spend 1000 or more.
Unbelievable.

Seems hard to accept each other's playstyle and to please everyone.
But this is about extreme views of some or a lot of people.
There are some that want the MP Story Game with Consequences in Quests/ Towns etc.
And the hardcore sandbox full loot PvPers on the other hand.
Inbetween there are compromises. But I see a lot of people don't want to find compromises in life either way.
That's a problem, but to me it's the right way to give people options and don't go for hardcore this or that.

I also don't see a exploit or benefit if all modes are viable to everyone.
Those who want easy mode go easy, those who want hardcore , go hardcore , those who like one day this and one day that can choose.

The problem about this thoughts is the problem of always competetive and the others more cooperative.
If you are a competetive player, PvE or pvp who works hard for your progress than do it.
If you are more cooperative and less progress orientated you always cannot compete with others .

The issue is, competetive progress oriented players want allways something to show up to others that they are better!

This is why they ask for an environment who everybody has the same circumstances and troubles to achieve something.
This is why I asked if the PvPers can manage it that this game offers non competetive and progress oriented players a less competetive environment. Although this is not only about PvP but PvE too, think of MP and SPO and the competition about ressources.

 

Maybe this is a cause to end with PvP discussion at all and don't go for open PvP full loot, but PvE only and more story!!!

Curious about how many PvE only players are versus the one who adress more hardcore PvP.

And to make sure i want the modest PvPers be here and that porta give them a good system and options to PvP. But the PvPers may have to accept that there are not in first line and the game allways offered a consensual PvP concept.

 

It cant be more consensual than on a pure PvP+ server. What "they" try to bake here is neither fish nor flesh.

// Armar