pvp vs not flagged

I love you.

 

The problem is that a person who flags for PVP, is accepting the risk to be attacked by other players who want to PVP, not players who want to PVE. You can argue that a person who is flagged for PVP should expect risk of being attacked by all players. . my counter to that is the risk is unbalanced as you cannot attack non flagged players, but you can be attacked by them? That risk is unbalanced as you will forever be at the disadvantage if you are flagged.

 

If the goal is getting as many people who want to do open PvP to flag for PvP, then is a bad idea because you're going to have PvPers not flag, just so they can do stealth attacks. Of course, if nobody is flagging, they have nobody to attack, and this shrinks the PvP population.

On the other hand, if we're looking not at today, but forward to future mechanics... where a thief or a murderer might automatically be flagged PvP, then letting PvEers attack him to collect the bounty might make sense...

However, with the current rules, it doesn't make much sense.

 

I hope that eventually virtue in PvP will matter and if you attack someone without reason (or after instaflagging) you will have debuff taking for example one hour until you can remove the flag.

I think it should be easyto flag and unflag if you are healer helping PvP guy kill a dragon. I think it should be relatively easy to flag and unflag if you are PK killer and follow Virtuous path, not attacking unprovoked or good guys, returning ransom if you kill someone unintentionally...

It should be damn hard to remove the flag if you abuse the system though to attack and loot others and then run to safety.

I hope that our actions will matter when it comes to PvP and removing the flag. Also I hope that one day when I flag for PvP I will not see every other PvPer as enemy by default. System like that only supports killing others before they kill you.

 

Sorry. Can't agree with you here. I see a difference. You are flagged for PVP living with the risks, etc. You can be attacked at any time on your way to where you plan on sitting when stealthed or before you are setup, in a town, etc. etc. You are "living the life" of open PVP and accepting the risks that go with it.

On the flip side you have people with the ability to never openly PVP, just walk around a scene unflagged with no risk of being attacked or jumped, observe players, follow them around then take advantage of a situation and slay them. Aftewords they clear the flag and resume thier normal non PVP operations. Only using it when it suits them for a easy kill and no other time flag for it.

That's not proportinate to me. I think more needs to be done to force you to stay in PVP for greater lengths of time once you decide to go that route.

 

It's not even about fairness or disadvantage, those things are part of the open PvP game. The problem is there are only two solutions to the guy who keeps unflagging to come hunt you while you are hunting mobs:
1) Quit playing
2) Unflag

It's not good for the PvP game.

 

Do you think perhaps it's unfair to point a finger at me since I have no control over who's questions are answered and who's are not? ---
I was merely making a general statement. I found it interesting that while limiting people to 3, they clearly make exceptions to some. And id argue that the flooding of questions from 1 individual, can cut into the time of answering the generic 3 from others. So i think it is completely related ( Especially since the argument in other threads is about proper use of limited Dev time) But your right, so @Berek So if questions are quick or well worded, you guys have no problems someone asking 10+ during post mortems? ( i mentioned this in the proper thread that day )

But this is not here or there, relevant anymore.

I too want as many people involved in PVP as possible. That's one of the reasons I own a PVP POT that has 500 available lots. So you can be sure that I would not be asking for mechanics that I thought would lessen my goal of filling all those lots. ---
Then i think your perspective on this is in the wrong. In theory it sounds ridiculous, but im willing to bet that this mechanic pulls in more players then it keeps out, when it comes to PVP.
I highly doubt that THIS mechanic is the deciding factor of why some people are staying OUT of PVP, or you would simply go to a PVP zone where its not an issue.
I know i have more guildies that are interested in PVP because of HAVING to follow me when i jump into flagged, and then staying in the zone with me. Which has led to more PVP participation. Those *Flash Fights* have done more for me getting people involved and into it then any other current mechanic in the game.


In practice, this mechanic gives PVE'ers a chance to PREVENT griefing ( remember when people were crying about PVP'ers KSin .. and not realizing they could attack the PVPer to prevent it? ) Remove this mechanic, and you will have MORE players abusing the fact they can run in, kill steal and hassle you with no consequence. Then you have of the current players who hide with no flag on, and only jump in an *opportunistic time* , then instantly run out and unflag before you can get revenge. ( Note: this would only happen to a PVP'er once, before they can simply plan accordingly )

Something that puts a minimum time limit is propbably the closest thing to a valid argument im reading here. But the problem with that, is the lack of PVP in World Map.
To do this you would need to PREVENT people from going to world map when flagged for an X amount of time, which isnt fair to real PVP'ers and not PVE / Jump in, kill and run out and unflagers. ( but then you have the problem of spawn camping, etc etc.. where the average flagger would get screwed ( also why i was pushing for random entrance spawning when flagged ) )

I agree they need a solution to the .. lets call them PVE opportunistic panzies, who instantly run out and unflag after. ( but even that is hardly griefing as you can only really do it once before the PVP'er will adjust)
But the mechanic in its own is no where near as bad as this thread implies.

3 ) Make the PVP zones worth being in, so you dont HAVE PVP'ers farming in PVE zones.

Ill also note. In no way is this mechanic considered * Meaningful PVP* thats an entirely different topic all together. But i fully understand why this is implemented and it is REALLY the only main measure in encouraging PVP'ers to use the PVP zones over PVE zones.
If it was That big an issue, the majority of PVPers wouldnt hang out in Deep Ravenswood, and would be in a shardfall where this mechanic doesnt come into effect =P

 

@MrBlight,

Actually, it would be cool to eventually be able to start PvP encounters with other players on the world map. Then, you could also make sure you always get in the same instance as someone you got in a fight with, so you can chase them...

 

Just to be clear, I only asked three questions on the website. I asked many more questions in Discord, as did others. I don't believe there's a rule that says you can't ask as many questions as you want in discord. I know there's certainly no rule that says they have to answer any of my questions, and there have been instances where they did not answer anything I asked.

No, I disagree. It enables griefing while simultaneously encouraging players not to flag for PVP because they can always just jump into PVP whenever they have the advantage.

 

I agree, but i dont see it. =/
Altho i just got a cool picture of having a PVP'er in world map thats not *friendly*, triggering a Roaming encounter when u run into them on the map, into a zone with 1 exit or something. Then just have a ... debuff on death that prevents player from engaging you (so it cant be repeatedly abused)

 

Only one post submission allowed, and keep questions to 3 or less. This will allow us to get to as many individual players’ questions as possible.
(right from the description)

Ahh your right, im a lowly pleb who just assumed that their generic post asking for 3 or less for the post mortem, included.. you know all the places you ask questions. Good maybe @Berek Can clarify that with the next write up, to.. how was it put to me..
Prevent clutter and promote a fair environment for all individuals to have an equal chance to get their questions attended.

But agian. This is off topic. So ill leave that to them to clarify next time.


No, I disagree. It enables griefing while simultaneously encouraging players not to flag for PVP because they can always just jump into PVP whenever they have the advantage. --- ( Quote the rest of my point there about KS'ing.. as there was a very vocal thread about it a few weeks back)

Id love to see the numbers behind the amount of players who specifically never flag, and only *jump in when they have the advantage* ? And in which case, id bet the PVP community cares less about that, as long as the player stays in the zone flagged for a bit to get a revenge fight in.
( When you flag, you generally accept the fact youll die once in a while. If i have to die, to get another person flagged to fight for a while, i happily will do that) If i didn't want to do that, i wouldnt be in a PVE zone flagged. Id be in a pure PVP zone.

I feel like you have a generally low opinion for the average people who ARE flagging PVP, and the players who do jump in and fight.
Having done it myself, and been victim to it on easily 20+ times, only 1 time has the player ran out of the zone instantly. And in response, when he came back, i stole 5 of his kills, he flagged, i killed him, and we continued killing each other back and forth for about another 30 minutes before having a laugh and moving on.

Have you personally seen this mechanic used for pure grieving? Or are you making assumptions based on the description of how it works?

 

seems like a good idea for some immersive sand box play.

ive never flagged tho only gone to open pvp zones.

but if I saw one of a short list of people flagged in a pve zone I was in I probably would stalk them and look for a nice opportunity to strike and have some meaningful pvp then run away

I don't really see where your coming from saying this isn't fair... your flagged for pvp lol that's sayin your up for a fight anytime anywhere... except apparently when your not...

 

I spend a lot of time in moderately populated PVE adventure scenes and I've never been jumped by a PVE player... I've had my kills blue-falconed enough to want them to flag though. haha One thing that is nice about flagging on the fly this way, when dudes want to form a PVP party it's very very convenient to do it this way. Having PVE/PVP mixed parties can be a bummer.

 

Yes, in every game I've ever played that had this type of mechanic, griefing has existed. I've had it happen to me, I've seen it happen to others. This is a very common byproduct of poor flagging mechanics.

 

I don't understand why you would think it was fair to be attacked by someone that is only attack you because you're at a huge disadvantage and wasn't flagged until that opportunity existed.

 

I was in Deep Ravenswood just yesterday. Ran into a guy I see around a bit and we partied. He ended up healing me at one point and we were then both flagged PvP (it may have been his first PvP experience). And yes, had an opportunist hunt and kill us both while we were in the mix with the liches, who then ran out of zone. We stayed in the zone hunting in PvP until he game back unflagged...

...rather pointless to stay any longer without unflagging.


Same day, same scene prior to that I was killed in the back solo while heavily wounded from skeletons by a guy from a guild rhymes with howl probably a full 20 levels higher than me. Totally different story and I got no problem with that as he was flagged PvP the whole time. I'll be looking for my chance to strike him back...and I'll be flagged PvP while I'm doing it.

 

Or, and I'm just throwing this out there... or, you could go back into DRW in a party of three and only one of you flagged... draw the dude out, let him attack you and then your party can flag against him and turn him into red paste.

I know this mechanic is under the microscope right now, and I'm not trying to stir the pot. And for solo flagged players in DRW this is likely a credible threat at all times... DRW is the hottest of hot PVE adventure scenes for PVP action. It's just that I do see a spectacular amount of strategic and tactical value in a mechanic like this. Take for instance the upcoming Berek's Grand PVP Tour that's going to happen. I know for a fact, people will be lurking scene entrance points. If enough volunteers sign on for his personal security detail - some folks can stay auxiliary and roll PVE until they're needed. They can even scout and burn the route ahead of the official party. Some may see that as griefing - I see it as a sandbox opportunity.

 

soo.. no, it hasn't been an issue here yet?

 

Agree and I've tried this tactic before (on a guy who was openly flagged PvP the entire time, just owning the scene and not letting me farm). I just don't have that many people on my friends list that would be willing to stand around waiting for the possibility of a single PvP encounter with a guy who will run or never flag at all. I know you probably would...

 

Have you been reading this thread?