Single player/offline discussion?

Hello, all!

I'm mostly a lurker here, but I raise my head from time to time to check in about the state of the single player campaign. I'm one of those old-school Ultima players who isn't interested in the multiplayer element and is just hoping for a classic-style experience. The last time I checked, which was several months ago, not much was known and people were in the "they should be getting to it soon, let's wait and see" headspace.

This last week I checked out the SotA AMA from June, though, and when I searched it for references to offline mode, all I found was this very worrying exchange:

"XoriniteWisp:
Hello, As a longtime player of the single-player Ultimas, I expected something entirely different from the Kickstarter than what is actually being developed - I'm sure I don't need to go into details, it's already been debated to death. My questions are:
Do you feel you've done right by UDIC and the single-player Ultima fans who backed you? Are there things you wish you'd done differently (with the campaign or the development) or things yet to come that you think may change our opinions?

Richard Garriott:
XoriniteWisp, First, thanks for the years of support! Second, yes, I do believe we are doing right, by the solo player base. It has been SLOW in coming, and we warned offline players that it would be the last phase of development, but we are finally getting more love on solo/offline play these days. Still, Shroud of the Avatar is a NEW TYPE of game. Its neither purely a Solo Player game, nor purely an MMO type game. On the plus side, this means there are many modes to play in. On the minus side, there are features that are effected by the "blending". So "purists" may always find issues."

So that's... unsettling. Not only have I somehow missed it having been debated to death, but it sounds like the outcome of that debate was unsatisfactory to the asker, and that perhaps I should be setting my sights a bit lower.

Am I misinterpreting? Can anyone point me to the discussions in question, or perhaps let me know how they went?

Thanks, all!

 

yes it has been a very long wait for the offline portion of the game to get much attention. My opinion on this is the team does not have time to think about it at this moment and really they should just admit that. The online game is taking almost every bit of energy and resources they have at this moment. I know not what you would like to hear since you are not an online game player. Really though, this game in the online mode is really going to be special once everything gets in that needs to be there to launch.

I am Majoria in the game if you ever want to come in and watch a play, mess around with fashion, instruments, playing music with the community here. It has been a very long road for all of us. I have been here since 2013 for the online part of the game.

I too wish once the launch of the online game that the team goes back and makes offline extra special. for those wishing for it I love offline games as well, but for me they don't have longevity once I play them I am done. With this community of players from all over the world it is amazing to me to get to meet them. One of my good friends here is from Finland. That is so amazing to touch hearts all over the world. So from me wishing you all the best in what you are looking for in this game. I do think you will have a bit of a wait to get the answers you seek though and I think RG will make it a great game for you when they get to it. It is all speculation imo and I would just hang in there and provide the feedback that makes the game the best it can be once that time comes. I never give up on the online. I will rally to the end for what this game needs. You can count on it.

 

@Lord_Darkmoon Is our local leader on this front and probably has the best insight.

Having said that, most of my time has been playing in offline mode and I have been enjoying it a lot, actually. More than I actual anticipated. Even though I had to start Cordelayne from scratch, the main storyline "flows" a lot better now and the number of quests available are slowly increasing, making things more interesting.

Don't get me wrong, there is still a ton of stuff that needs work, but it's still fun. It's not Ultima VII fun, but it still has it's moments. One of the current drawbacks is that there is only one companion in the game and although she is cool, you can't really interact with her like you could companions in the other Ultimas. As @Lord British stated in your post, given that it's a "hybrid" game there definitely isn't the depth of story or lore you would find in other Ultimas, but I hold out hope that it will eventually get there!

 

I begin to think that the offline mode was a mistake. It came from the idea that Richard wanted to play SotA when he was in an area where he didn't have access to the internet.
Yet, a game with a focus on multiplayer and online play doesn't make sense in an offline mode. No one would play WoW or Everquest offline or Overwatch, DotA etc. Simply because it isn't fun. Those games are not made to be played alone.

If you offer an offline mode then this mode should stand on its own. Like Cloud Imperium is doing with Star Citizen and Squadron 42. By announcing an offline mode for SotA many people believed that it would be a fully-fledged single-player game with features of a single-player game. Yet that is not the case as we now all know. They take the online game and let you play offline with some balacing adjustments. But imho this doesn't work. The offline game of SotA will be compared to other offline RPGs and then it simply cannot compete. Let's just take choices and consequences... Not there in SotA yet this is what people expect from a single-player game.

So I think the devs should have either created a unique offline mode from the scratch that would have been a true single-player game or scrapped the offline mode. Like it is now it is not good and might even lead to the downfall of the whole game.

 

Thanks for the replies, guys!

Hmm. So, if I'm correctly understanding, as fR anyone knows right now, the single-player mode isn't a fully fleshed-out game, comparable to an Ultima or other RPG, and there's little reason to believe it will be.

Lord_Darkmoon, you seem to be absolutely certain... When you say, "that's not the case as we all now know," can you clarify? I don't know myself what you're referring to. How do we know? I'm not doubting you, you understand, I literally don't have any information.

 

Lum said in a post that the offline mode will not get other/different content than the online mode. So basically it will be same game with a different balacing and NPC companions to make up for other players.
And if you play the online mode, you will see that it plays like an MMORPG - no consequences to our actions, everyone does the same things, respawn everywhere, grinding etc. So basically playing SotA in offline mode is like playing a MMORPG offline. Doesn't make much sense doing this...

 

Well hopefully you told him to reconsider when they have more time to look at offline. I am not sure I would give up until they actually release it, but I am very stubborn that way. You have such fantastic ideas so keep trying.

 

While Lum has said that the quests will be the same for offline/online, that doesn't mean that there won't be consequences for actions. Whether or not they have the resources to implement, they want some sort of impact through instancing/phasing. As seen here, he has said most of this impact will be through side quests, and of course they are really only starting to work on it. Hope they will be able to pull off

 

Well, that's horrifying. If someone described that to me as a game I'd say it sounded like the worst possible experience, but to hear it in reference to an Ultima is... I am wordless with dismay.

Ah, but Twiggi's posts from Lum give me hope. It sounds from those that they want the finished product to be comparable to a traditional single-player game. That's very reassuring.

 

I'm a bit of a lurker too. Trying to stay positive about the single player experience but what RG said is making me very nervous as well.

What makes me more nervous still is how this message has changed from the "U7 is our benchmark" direction...

The only way they can make this happen is with great balancing and phasing.

Off-line MMO sounds naff.

 

Hi, all! I was just reading the update about the game possibly launching properly in March! Thought I’d check and see if there has been any new word on “offline mode.”

Are we feeling optimistic that it will compare to Ultima 7, or are we fearing the worst?

 

Most the story has been hashed out. As far as i know there are no differences between doing it on mmo mode or offiline. Also not much on companions..

Release is in march.. so polishs n balances.. i dont expect a real re work of offline mode before then ( least its not in their already overloaded plans ).

@Lord_Darkmoon might have more updated info on that tho.

 

Right now offline mode feels like playing a MMORPG offline. Not what I would call a single player narrative or a "true" offline experience. If it stays this way at release I expect SotA to be in serious trouble as the offline mode and the single player narrative will be rated, too.

 

Yeah, the offline game is pretty much going to be playing an MMO but offline unless they explicitly state something will change in the Q1 schedule or 50/51/52 release notes. Some might be ok with an offline MMO, but the experience can be pretty painful at times.

For example, housing: just having to drudge through all those empty lots and houses in every town is pretty depressing. It's not just that player housing is only on the outskirts but it's actually the very basis for town design...which does not make well for a "pure" single player experience.

A simple design change to mitigate is that perhaps in offline mode when you enter a town, you are simply plopped into the town center with an easy "boat" sign out, thereby ignoring all that player housing for the most part.

A more complicated and time consuming effort would decorate and populate those as NPC houses, with actual NPCs with schedules in them. Perhaps if they ever allowed offline modding...maybe. But yeah, one can dream.

And don't get me started on the The Companions...or spawning rules, or combat balance, or item decay, or ...

If you want an Ultima 7 experience, go play Ultima 7 again. You're not going to get it here any time soon, unfortunately. Maybe somewhere down the road, when they have more time / budget / manpower that they can make it a priority vs. all other MMO features...

 

I wish the devs would just take a hardline approach and tell these people that single player mode isn't going to happen. This game was primarily sold as an MMO and visions rightfully changed during this creation process. This is way better than some boring and unchanging single player game. I wish people could be thankful for what we've received! It's a hell of a product!

 

Well, that’s incredibly depressing.

Sempiternal Dragon, I don’t know what to tell you. I wish the devs would be honest with us as well, but as for the vision “rightfully” changing or this being better than a single player game, I couldn’t disagree more. I despise MMOs, as do many, because I want to be caught up in a story, one with meaningful actions and decisions, and not one where my gameplay experience intersects with a thousand selfish, obnoxious online gamers. I’m not interested in sharing the experience or in the general drudgery that is MMOs. I’m not looking for an Ultima-themed life simulator.

The team began this process by telling us there would be a strong single player story, and they’re the ones who invoked Ultima 7 for comparison.

So... is there anywhere we can provide feedback om this? Somewhere backers can talk to the devs about it? Because, honestly, if that’s the case I’d like my money back.

 

I wish the moderators would just take a hardline approach, and tell people like you to stop posting flamebait.

That's about half-correct.

With the process deviating as much as it does now, from the Kickstarter campaign? Rightfully not.

If it's an unchanging and boring Ultima game, then subjectively no. One could argue that you have thousands of MMO games to pick from. Since you evidently do not care for what made Ultima Ultima, and you can't even pretend to know why it wouldn't be boring, you might as well pick The Elder Scrolls Online. There you can still slay Monsters to your hearts content, and meet people, do many of the same things. It's always changing, and never boring, too. Unless there are more qualifiers.

And I wish people would take a good, hard look at classic Ultima games first, then the SOTA Kickstarter campaign, and just be honest. You'll be the judge of what you think is a hell of a product. So will I. Also, that convenient ignorance to the fact that I and many other people in threads that you have participated in, have detailed their concerns already, to exhaustion, ... you already have answers to all of this. Given many times over.

Asking for thankfulness from those who feels that their opinions and feelings never mattered, is nothing short of trolling, at this point.

To this day, no one I've ever read on this board has demanded that your most enjoyed MMO aspects be taken away from you, or anybody else. Most single player Ultima fans have been calm and sensible about it. We're being part of a minority here - one that you just can't seem to get rid off fast enough, can you? I'll be taking my leave, when I know that the time to give up on a proper single player aspect, has come AND gone.

While I do feel grateful for a number of kind and sweet, and upstanding people right here -many of whom I am disagreeing with about this or that- I could do well without your continuous prodding, failing at trying to mask your hatred for the single player aspect. Precious little you have brought to this particular discussion has ever been benign or understanding. I'm sure that if you stopped, a number of single player interested people would feel a lot more welcome, bring some new blood, and a whole lot of others on the MMO side of things would not feel grossly misrepresented by you.

 

Hey, I got the game I was looking for and don't have any issues.

 

Jamet - Ahhh, so it is a frequent topic of discussion after all. I didn’t have much luck searching for it before I posted this thread originally, and, to be honest, I find the forum somewhat daunting.

I’m very happy to be joining the discussion, even if it’s not a very positive topic. I’ve been watching the updates, knowing the devs said all the work on single player would come here at the end. Now I’m afraid I should have been making noise rather than waiting and trusting.

 

Same.