2nd Release

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Artte Darrow, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

    Lord Tachys al`Fahn Avatar

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    Here's my take on it.

    I SotA's basic premise, it was stated that it would be 5 episodes in the same game world, running in the same engine. So, let's liken this model to a house.

    In this house, I have a basic floorplan I intend to establish, one that contains within it all that I need to live and grow for the very near future. BUT, because I KNOW it I need to expand in the future (in this case, four times), I have to plan for that.

    So, I draw up some plans that will contain all the basics, yet include in the design the framework I need to expand in the directions needed in the future. I don't know what walls I will need to blow out, or in which direction I will go, but I secure the land necessary to encompass my anticipated growth, lay a foundation that will support most if all the needed expansion, and set core systems so that when future loads are added on, they will either easily meet the demand, or can be easily modified to do so.

    While I am doing this, I need to run this all through simulations so that I can be as certain as I can reasonably expect to be that all of the above is true, and all my systems perform the way I need them to right now, and will continue to perform as future loads increase.

    This wasn't done with SotA.

    My personal design choice: Level ranges per episode.

    I would have decided upon long range level set for the entire game, say levels 1-400, and the system used to gate this, such as the experience pool system used here in SotA. Then, set a level range I expect each episode to be accomplished within, and design the core elements of that episode around this decision. This would have set the stage for deciding upon progression elements, and given me a framework around which I could design not only the game world itself, but the story elements, and how the story would flow within that framework.

    Example:

    Epsiode Design decision: a character should need to progress no higher than AL 80 to complete Episode 1, and 80 AL's for each episode thereafter.
    Consideration 1: completing the episode should take about 40 hours of gameplay
    Consideration 2: Length of time between launch of episodes

    Result: Difficulty and experience gain should be such that the storyline is challenging all the way up through 80 AL's, with with other scenes and adventuring opportunities available to provide progression beyond what is provided past completion of the current episode's story, but not so much that achieving anything beyond 20 AL's higher could be achieved without extreme amounts of grinding prior to release of the next episode. This allows players that have achieved the pinnacle of power in the current episode to begin the next episode without being so extremely overpowered that they blow through the next episode in much less time than intended.

    With the above stated, then you go about designing the game with it in mind, which will govern decisions on everything from spawn times and creature strength, to skill power and experience gain, and give you a way to control the flow of the story so that the player progresses in a fashion that is consistent with that of a SP game, but also give them room to grow a little while they wait for the content the next episode will provide. Each episode could also introduce new abilities per skill, new skills, new creatures that have different resistances, etc.

    It doesn't need to have everything on rails, but there was a definite lack of direction and thus a feeling of progression I experienced while playing this first episode, that was exacerbated by all the other flaws and made the whole thing more acutely painful than it would have been otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  2. Barugon

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    This was something that they considered and decided against.
     
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  3. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    When was that decided? I know there was supposed to be a team meeting last Wednesday, but I must have missed when they made any kind of decision.
     
  4. Barugon

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    Chris said on one of livestreams that they're going to do something else.
     
  5. eli

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    They should do both.

    That is, start everyone from zero AND prevent you from having to "pay your dues"

    They said they didn't want to make a grinding game, and this is their chance to prove it.
     
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  6. Barugon

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    The problem is that you would then be managing a different avatar for each episode. That's a total no-go for me.
     
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  7. eli

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    That is a bizarre ultimatum to impose upon yourself.

    There's plenty of grey area you are dismissing, like backporting some of the good episode 2 changes, keeping the separation based on items, or making the separation based upon new stat types, etc.

    If you are implicitly limiting episode 2 to the same fundamental mechanics, economy, and skill curve of episode 1, you are just asking for more scenes and monsters. That formula is currently failing so I don't have to explain why it would in episode 2.
     
  8. Brass Knuckles

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    Ur kidding right? And you know there is a whole other thread where all this has already been talked about.

    This is the grindyest game of games and that’s before any eps 2 wipe then eps 3 wipe then eps 4 wipe. I’ve no interest in making another new toon I’ve 3 I have already leveled on my account that’s two too many as it is. Why can’t I use the one I made to play this game if I want to? This is the most retarted idea I’ve ever heard of for a mmo and that’s what this is a mmo. The stand alone thing flew the coup a long time ago.

    Why do we need two threads rehashing this Out go there say ur piece like everyone eps has.
     
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  9. smack

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    I didn't get that from the livestream. My understanding was that it may be unlikely and they're considering other options but it's all under discussion still. But you're probably right, they'll likely do something else as I don't think they're that crazy...well...maybe... :rolleyes:

    Yeah, that's how I see it too. It seems like they'd rather start fresh with Ep2 leveraging what they learned from Ep1 mistakes. It remains to be seen if it'll be a repeat but that's another story.

    I think everyone will agree that we need more players, but there's the dilemma. If we require them to first go through Ep1, which is broken and the devs don't want to fix, then we will lose them by the time they reach the outskirts and quit. This is abundantly clear since the current state of Ep1 is not exactly lighting up the sales charts.

    But if we start fresh with Ep2 with presumably a new quest system and presumably correctly balanced content, then the veterans all rage quit.

    Perhaps they'll just leave the Ep2 main quest line balanced and tuned for a new player, to maintain the ability to play any Episode as a standalone and in any order. This ultimately means high level vets will just blow through the quests with trivial ease, which based on comments in the other thread, some players don't seem to mind or care about anyways. I guess you could say it would be like a "story mode" difficulty level in some way like in other games.
     
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  10. Barugon

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    I also don't want to reequip my avatar every time I move between the two areas.
     
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  11. oplek

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    We're not even getting standup notes anymore, let alone any real dev interaction in the forums... so asides in streams is about all the communication we have left... maybe we'll be informed of the final decision in one of the release instructions.
     
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  12. Brass Knuckles

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    Yea I’m cool with that.
     
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  13. eli

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    So am i missing something, or are you fundamentally saying you want to chain episode 2 to a failing game balance because you don't want to bind equipment to decks? It is literally one button push for any deck you want now...
     
  14. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    How about instead, they fix episode one, chain episode 2 to things that work, and improve upon them? Call me crazy, but that's what I'd rather have...
     
  15. Kara Brae

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    What a predicament.

    People like me have the problem that the difficulty level for Episode 1 has already been raised to unreachable levels. Even scenes I used to frequent have been made too difficult, so half of the Episode 1 content is already off limits to me. Why should I even bother to download Episode 2 if the difficulty is made challenging for players who have done everything in Episode 1?

    On the other hand, good players who have become mighty warriors in Episode 1 need to be able to continue on their road to invincibility in Episode 2 in order to have fun.

    Maybe Darkstarr could find a way to fragment the space-time continuum and create accessible parallel universes with different Episode 2 rules of engagement for players who have different needs to use. If he manages that, I hope he creates a single-player universe as well.
     
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  16. Lars vonDrachental

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    One solutions could be if they would separate the exp pools to be based on episodes. One pool for all the ep1 content, one for all the ep2 content,…

    While you are in Episode 1 you have access to all episode 1 experience but you do not have access to other episodes experience pools.

    While you are in ep2 you e.g. just have access to enough ep1 exp to be adv. level 50. If you do not have enough exp to start with lvl 50 in ep2 you simply start with lvl 36 or whatever level you have reached so far.
    To this base value you are carrying with you from ep1 you can gain ep2 experience to raise your level above lvl 50 while you are in ep2.

    While you are in ep2 again you can just take as much exp as is needed to reach lvl 50 but additionally you can take ep2 experience to reach lvl 70. Again just ep3 experience can raise your skill above lvl 70 and so on.

    To reward the once who are playing in all episodes they could create e.g. a special continent where you cannot gain any exp but all ep-pools are combined.
    There you could fight the most powerful monsters for rewards/resources or fight in PvP arenas or something alike.
     
  17. Brass Knuckles

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    Spend a weekend with me in UT that will put you in the top 25%
     
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  18. Barugon

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    I don't want to play two separate SotA MMOs.
     
  19. Brass Knuckles

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    I won’t, I’ll stick with eps 1 hopefully they will keep improving it.
     
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  20. Duke Dariuss of Lys

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    Hello,

    I'm completely against this decision, they should not touch the skills at all. Lots of players may want to quit the game because of this, it is a very very bad decision to take, double XP or not. I could understand at the very early stages of the game but i've never seen any other games that will reset the skills or touch the skills in any way that were already acquired by veteran players like me and my guild members because of a new release. It should have been adressed a long time ago, not now.

    I hope the devs will find a solution and think twice before making this bad decision.I do not consider Episode 2 as a separate standalone game, i consider it as a big update with lots of new content.