A change to deck combos to make gameplay smoother

Actual combos are designed to work as stacks of glyphs because is the system they implemented. Of course actual combos wont work in a sequence detection system.
So the real problem is not detecting what a player wants to do , but designing the right sequences of actions to trigger a combo effect, then I see no problem at all.

 

First of all of course I don't like the actual combo system, my main concern is
that actual system takes your focus out of combat action.
Otherwise I wouldn't be suggesting alternatives like many other people are doing.


I see that people just try to apply actual stack skills combo system to the alternative sequence detection system.
They are different systems and they have of course different ways to be implemented.
One thing I want to clarify is that sequence combo system may perfectly fit Random Deck system.

Let me give some examples how I see the sequence detecting combo system.

Based on glyphs in your Deck you can plan your spell/hit sequence depending
on the effect you want on your target. Of course the random glyph system adds
some grade of quicksilver situations. And I think that would be fun.

Please, notice that those are just simple examples to show system mechanics,
sequences of skills or timing of course should be carefully tweaked.


Blades

Combo (Removing defenses)
Thrust + Double Slash ( in a 3 second window) = Decreases target defenses for next hit.
If you successfully chain this sequence your next hit would deliver extra damage on target.

Combo (Bloody Wounds)
Double Slash + Rend ( in a 4 seconds window) = Increases Bleed DoT in time or intensity.
If you manage to chain Double slash and Rend then the Rend bleed effect is increased.


Bludgeon

Combo ( Stun )
Crushing blow + Knockback ( in a 3 seconds window) = Stun effect.
If you fail to land Hit B in the 3 seconds window then you don't get the Stun effect

Combo (Armor destroyer)
Crushing Blow+Crushing Blow+Crushing Blow ( in a 6 seconds window) = Increased armor damage
Throwing 3 consecutive Crushing blows in a short time period would increase damage on targets armor.


Fire

Combo (Burning skin)
Flame Fist + Fire Ball ( in a 3 seconds window) = (Increased Damage over time effect)
Flame Fist plus a Fire Ball increases fire DoT damage.
(Notice you have to be close to your target to start this combo).

Combo (Burning arrows)
Fire arrow + Fire arrow + Fire arrow ( in a 6 seconds window) = (Extra damage on last fire arrow).
If you manage to hit 3 consecutive times with fire arrow last arrow deals extra damage.


And those are just some examples, can you imagine the endless combinations in a classless system?
The random glyph delivering fits perfectly with this system.Targets also have a chance to break your
combos if they detect that you are trying to trigger a combo effect, developers may also design defensive
skills to counter those combo effects making combat more tactical. And of course you have to pay attention
to what your opponent is doing so you can react in time to his incoming combo effects.
What do you think about this system?

 

@Borg

That's actually quite an interesting alternative to the combo system, it's less obvious in a way and requires players to keep track of what they've recently thrown at their enemy. From what I gather, tracking would then be tied to the debuff window applied. This would work very well with the locked glyph sets that might be favoured by some - you can't combo with them as of now.

Edit: problem is, you'll still lose the focus discount bonus in this process though, because the 'combo' or special effect is only counted when applied on the debuff (enemy) side.

 

Its quite evident that actual combos are not designed for locked Decks, and this is showing the actual system inconsistency.​

So basically, the actual design just needs to be adjusted in order to give locked and dynamic Deck users access to the same features.
I don't know if they are working on a solution, but sequence combo system seems to me a good alternative to the actual stacking glyphs
system, because it fits well on both dynamic and locked Decks.

I understand they want to make everybody happy, allowing people to use the combat system they prefer,​

but if you do so, you have to give all players access to the same features. Not allowing Locked Deck users to use combos is a
great handicap, because locked Deck users would loose a very fun aspect of the combat system, and it gives a huge disadvantage in PVP.

I see only 2 solutions:​

1.- Removing Locked Deck from game.
2.- Designing a new combo system working in both Locked and Dynamic Decks.

 

Concerning latency problems, I just thought that combos could be designed rewarding players to stay close in combat,
reducing the hated latency problems. Developers could design combos giving them an incentive to stay closer, extra
damage bonus depending on distance to target, or just placing shorter range skills as the last combo sequence step.
So this way you can still run and move away but you will loose that extra damage bonus.

Lets see some examples

Fire:
Combo (Burning Hands) Extra DoT damage.
Fire Ball + Flame Fist [5 seconds window]. Increases Flame Fist DoT damage.
If you successfully chain a ranged Fire ball with a short range Flame Fist then you get extra damage bonus.

Water + Earth:
Combo(Ice Cracks) Extra earth damage.
Ice arrow + Stone Fist [5 seconds window]
After receiving ice damage, using Stone fist will inflict extra damage on your target.

Blades + Water:
Combo (Ice bubble) Fire immunity.
Parry + Shield of Ice [3 seconds window]
Combined effects would increase Parry and Shield Ice with a surrounding ice bubble making caster immune
to fire damage for a short period of time.

 

I'd have to disagree here and say that traditional combat and dynamic combat should not be given the same features. Otherwise, what's the point? Just go with one system then. The way it's designed now, locked combat gives you direct, on-demand access to the skills you want. And that advantage is offset by the inability to use combos. Dynamic combat gets combos as their advantage but that is offset by being randomly dealt their skills. You want the best of both worlds? Use a hybrid combat deck with some locked vs. some dynamic.

I'm all for alternatives so if there are common features that can be applied to both, would love to hear them. But in no way am I going to throw away the current balance and give combos to locked combat unless there is something else to offset that, both in terms of negative offset for locked, or positive offset for dynamic.

 

You agree with point 1. Just go with one system then. = Remove Locked deck from game.

You agree with point 2. Of course there should be balance tweaks, why do you assume I didn't want balance tweaks?.

So basically you agree with me, but you just didn't notice yet.

 

I agree with Smack. By their nature random decks are placed at a disadvantage when compared to locked decks. At the outset there is already a difference between the two systems, the random, use when it comes up versus I can use when I want as long as it is available. Because there isn't the ability to use skills and spells on demand, but you have to wait for a random glyph to appear, there should be compensation for choosing that system. Focus costs are going to be different between the decks. And combos should only be available to randomly built decks. Otherwise locked decks get a huge advantage since combos can be created at any time.

 

Again nobody said there shouldn't be balance tweaks, where did you got the idea that locked Deck means anytime combos?
What I'm saying is that a very fun part of the game is being negated to locked deck users.

 

Nice try. Unfortunately, I disagree with you.

I am an advocate of the dynamic combat system. I also know lots of people don't like it and even proposed back in November what they are doing now: giving players a choice. But I'm not an advocate of applying combos (as they currently exist or have been implemented) from the dynamic system to traditional combat. You still haven't proposed an alternate and are still pushing for combos in traditional locked combat, which I do not agree with. How about reducing all timers or cooldowns or whatever for locked combat even further?

Traditional locked combat:
- has full access to 10 slots immediately vs. dynamic has to spend skill points to unlock each slot
- has direct, on-demand access to their skills vs. dynamic has to wait to be dealt due to random deal
- has no draw entry/removal speed as the skills are always present vs. dynamic has to spend skill points to speed up the animation upon skill deal and skill removal
- the penalties for locked are being greatly reduced and they continue to reduce them even further as mentioned in today's post
- has no slug penalties vs. dynamic combat who have to fill their decks with enough skills or yet again spend skill points to reduce (but not completely remove) slugs

Dynamic glyph deck combat:
- gets to create combos but still has to wait for them to appear on the hot bar simultaneously and has no control due to random dealing
- if combos are given to traditional locked, they can do combos 100% of the time and don't have to wait for the right set of skills to appear on the hot bar at the same time

There are far more penalties for dynamic deck vs. traditional locked and those disadvantages are primarily only offset by combos. Yet, now there's a suggestion to give that offset to traditional locked combat too? That's actually pretty funny. You gotta give up something else and/or come up with an alternative feature for traditional locked.

 

I'm wondering if you really have read the full thread, did you?

Let me ask you something just to be clear here, have you seriously tested locked deck?

 

So you are saying you have a way to have locked decks that can create combos but not when the player the player wants to create them? That there are some kind of hidden rules, magic behind the scenes way of creating combos for locked decks? Not Tulare that any proposal like that falls into the realm of balance tweaks. Sounds like a completely different system for locked glyphs.

 

Why not stack the necessary spells into a single slot in the locked deck when you build the deck- it would reduce your available instances of the spells, and casting the combo would take the aggregate focus and casting time to fire off, but it least you'd have it available. I would recommend that if this is adopted, you allow untacking en passant to deconstruct the combo and return the components to "inventory"

 

What is the point of cards and decks? what happened to creating macros? is this just a cool new way to make learning how to do combos way easier?

 

I think thats cool. lots of others will think it cool too but what if there is something even coooolllerrr....

 

Why dont we just ditch the whole card system and replace it with simple macros that you set up yourself. Reduce the amount of spells and special moves to free up the mind. By freeing up the mind we can make this a skill based combat system. Skill based > memory based. The problem here is that most of these people are not very skillful and they are choosing to take full advantage of the situation and create a game that is tailored to their people instead of all people. Not that it really matters because most of the people in on this game are lame!!

 

I read that but then forgot what it wa.... What am I talking Bout again?

 

I don't see how a system based on macros could make combat more skillful. By freeing up the mind you're making a mindless system, wacking your customized Iwin buttons until you win or lose. Some of these people you accused to be taking advantage complained about the system in its current state because combat decisions almost don't matter; it seems to me they want to be put in a pinch every time they need to use a skill, needing to choose what's best in a split second. How does macros are more skillful than that?

I feel you made some mistakes in your post, i took the liberty to correct them:
The My problem here is that most of these people are not very skillful don't understand "being skilled" as i do and they are choosing to take full advantage of the situation express themselves from their point of view and create a game that is tailored to their people according to their train of thought instead of all people mine.

That's more like it.

 

The sequence combo system requires using your memory and reacting to different success/fail situations.
I'm very confident that this alternative would be really fun to play. Because you have to try chaining combat moves or spells successfully
at the same time you have to react to your targets moves on combos he is trying to perform on you, so you have to be very skillful
determining risk/reward situations and being able to predict your target next move based on already performed actions.
SO YES, you have to use your brain and it wont hurt you, I promise, at the end you would be amazed how fun is using your brain in pvp, even when you lose.

A Random deck system is not a great deal for your brain, and if you tell me I would say that moving your eyes that fast on the screen
from deck to action, from action to deck would end in a severe HEADACHE. (Dev team should seriously be aware of this).

 

Indeed, the number of studies that have shown the harmful effects of staring intently at digital monitors are beginning to number beyond count. Anything that lets the player blink, rest their eyes, and do the work of controlling the game without constantly staring at the screen is a good thing. Auditory cues might be nice. Of course, I'm still hoping that we haven't declared victory on the random skill system, I still think it's going to hit a wall.