A plea for the single player experience.

@rune_74
@Bubonic

I have to agree that crafting seem to be getting over-focused. I cant say as I blame them thinking that's where the money is. Look at the success of games like Minecraft, and GMod. When combined with RPG modifications to them that allow using their crafting system and owning land on the maps... it seems like a no-brainer.

But I think there are a lot of thing that have already been done over and over too much. Things like optional PvP, Crafting, Land owning have all been over done. They should say "lets bring this boat around and set a new trend". They should focus on things like NPC life and personalities. Those sub-storylines you can find hidden around in U7. Good god I miss all of that and its the only reason I still play U7 today.

 

Sure, but I fear they are way too far gone at this point.

I know this is going freak the living crap out of a lot of people, that I'll be called a heretic, even troll, but I've got to get it off my chest: The more I contemplate the whole darn thing, the more I'm convinced that RG and co. would have been well advised, both logistically AND financially, to do two completely different projects. I can already feel the rotten tomatoes being hurled at me, but how much time have we all devoted (wasted?) debating, discussing, arguing points which at the root are multiplayer/single player constructs at odds with each other?

At first I thought it was admirable, down right ballzy of RG and co. to say they will make a new genre of game which satisfies both markets, but more and more it seems to me they are making a UO'esque MMO (with a LOT of player housing), and then recycling THAT game engine/world to deliver a single player game.

While I firmly believe there is an enormous market for an "Ultima Online 2.0" (actual title notwithstanding), I am even more certain that there is an enormous market for an "Ultima X" (again, actual title notwithstanding) which employs all the game-play mechanics and systems of Ultima 7 (albeit with a higher resolution, color depth, and audio spec). I don't think its a stretch to say such a game would be by an order of magnitude easier and cheaper to make. No you cant micro transaction the heck out of it, but darn it you could sell a few hundred thousand at $50 a pop. And once you do that, once you have the framework in place and sales receipts in your pocket, making the 2nd and 3rd installments of a trilogy would be a cake walk.

As I've already said elsewhere, for 20 years I've been looking for the follow up to Ultima 7 (8 and 9 need not apply). When I heard about SotA I thought for a second I might have found it but I haven't, and I've made peace with that. I've bought in, am enjoying the whole crowd founded dev process (and all that that implies), and will I hope have some fun with the finished product. Maybe if sufficiently successful, RG/Portalarium will have so much ready cash on hand that in the not too distant future they decide to REALLY revisit the single player genre more intrinsically.

 

My gut feeling was that it came down to practicality. For a niche game, you want to attract as many people as possible with whatever means you have and making a single-player-only game would not have achieved that. Of the 30,000-something backers we have today, how many would that be if this didn't have the MMO component? The number would have to be smaller. By how much I don't think we can say, but it would certainly be smaller. On the flip-side, how many would we have here if the game was online-only? Again, the number would certainly be smaller. I'd stick my neck out, however, and say it would be less of a drop than if it was a single-player-only game. Now, all of that left RG with a decision about how to bring the two together, and at the same time, ensure that the client-server relationship was set up in a clever enough way so that the game wouldn't incur the running costs of a regular MMO; the result being the path taken.

 

I'm not sure how the SPO people are second class??? That's strange thinking. They are single player mode that's all. Same as FPO just no friends.

 

I think there is a perception issue here.

We haven't seen much of the game cycle, so people say the only thing Portalarium cares about is housing and crafting. That isn't necessarily the case. It is just that those portions were in game first. SotA should be judged by the final game we get to play, not early pre-alphas.

 

Well one thing is for certain in SPO mode you shouldn't be allowed to go into PvP zones and mine the resources. I never advocated for PvP zones I just figured everybody should be able to mine stuff not flagged for PvP, but since they are going the route of having PvP zones that have greater resources, it would not be fair for the economy to have SPO or any other non-PvP person be able to gather resources in such a zone. That doesn't make you second rate citizens it's just how the game is made. You can still buy those resources from somebody who gathered them.

 

yup, because the number of sales skyrim, the single payer game, had was so paltry it didn't spark them to makea completely online incarnation.....o wait.

 

who said second class citizen? Oh right, you did. The words I used didn't apply to a singular group of people but a play style or mode, and for that I said it was being played out as secondary to the MP options being designed.

And thanks fora perfect example of wasted resources. I am playing SPO but parts of the world should be locked of to me? so if I am not playing online and play single player offline I can get to those resources then? cause what is the justification to block someone at that point?

 

Edit: Mis-read.

 

There was a young farmer from Kent,
Who needed a room which to rent,
He knocked on the door,
Of a local town whore,
And remained till his money was spent.

 

I bought the whole game and I want to play the whole game, visiting every area even in single player online or offline mode. Why? Because I payed for the whole game an not 90% of it. If they want to keep the balance they have to find some other way than restricting paying customers from zones they payed for! Even if I play in single player online or offline I have the exact same rights as every other player and this includes me going anywhere in the game I want to go!

 

Actually, I mis-read your last paragraph. I thought you said you wouldn't be able to access them in single player offline. My fault, ignore the post.

*Note to self, make sure of what I read when tired and responding to things to not make myself look dumb.

 

Skyrim had a recent established fan base who had purchased millions of copies of Morrowind and Oblivion. It had a massive budget. It had cutting edge graphics. And it was available for both PC and console.

I don't think that is a fair comparison to an indie RPG with a small budget catering to a niche market who want really old school style games on the PC exclusively.

 

Absolutely true, though my hypothesis is that a dedicated single player game on a 2D tile based engine would be in kind less demanding in terms of time/resources/cash, yet (assuming the good ol RG magic is still viable) the sales potential would be decent.

In fact I would postulate that had such a clear and concise POC been shown, number of people pre-purchasing (separate from total $) might actually exceed 30k (Wasteland2 comes to mind....). I know a ton of people who

 

I can't say how they are going to work in the PvP areas to Single Player Online. I mean, if they don't allow those players in in single player it is removed content - sorta. They did say that everything found in those areas is also found in other areas. It is just more abundant in the PvP areas to try and get more people interested in PvP like resources. Can't remember their exact wording on that.


Edit:
Basically what they said about the PvP zones that I see relating to SPO:

• The rarest resources and rarest creatures will be more abundant in PVP Zones. (IMPORTANT NOTE: These resources and creatures also appear in PVE zones)
• PVP Zones are currently planned to only be accessible in Open Multiplayer since playing them in Friend Only or Single Player Online modes would be an easy way to circumvent PVP.

Now, I don't see how being excluded from the zones would matter in the end, if you CAN find the things elsewhere. How they pull it off on the other hand is another matter.

Edit 2:
I can see how it could be a turnoff to some to not be able to go into the zone in the online single player, depending on how it turns out. A player wants to explore everything, and should be able to. Guess we will have to see the implementation of it.

As for the person talking about offline single player, I haven't heard of any restrictions to play in that. Everything would be open and you could do anything regardless of zone. Might be wrong, but I would see no reason that it wouldn't be like that.

 

he said the single player "features", not the players.

 

Im not sure really why this game is being termed a niche game considering the ultima giants that this game is going to draw direct influence from.
I think this game could have the potential to easily attain 2 million sales - if it can capture a 8.5 or higher average rating. Something i dont really see happening currently unless Portalarium spends AT LEAST another full year on it and aiming to blow away the market with gobs of great gameplay and immersion.

First impressions are critical and rushing anything is just going to hurt its chance of real success.

U7 and UO were heavy hitters and a proper successor would in theory be able to sell well just because every rpg gamer from the eighties and nineties knows of the franchise.

Some real overhauls and reassement is in need to actually capture what those games actually had to offer gamers.

Making just a successor in spirit wont do.

 

Imagine something like this: a meteor comes crashing down on the land. The adventurer wants to explore it, looking what this is about and then cannot enter the zone as it is restricted to open mode due to it being flaggend for PvP??? How lame would that be?
If this would be the case it would be the best example of single player being just an add in and not the focus of SotA. Or will we SP players get SP exclusive areas, too that are not accessible in open online mode? I doubt that.

I wouldn't mind that you could only find rare PvP material from which you can craft PvP items only when you enter the area in open online mode. But you should be able to enter and explore the area in single player, too. If you then can only find PvE materials I would be ok with it. But you cannot restrict some players from doing things in a game they fully paid for as this would indeed create two classes of players.

 

Unlike Ultima which obviously has a zero customer base who bought millions of copies of the original adventures, which is likely the inspiration for the original ES, Daggerfall, MW, etc...

But yeah, of course, they are obviously breaking new ground here.

I am not following. If they had spent their cash on hiring RG the designer, they would have had less or more sales?

And why does having good graphics preclude having a good design? I loved the adventuring system, sandbox, wide open, in Skyrim. I still play Skyrim.

Does not compute what you are implying here.

 

I would tend to agree, but the same restriction isn't just placed on single player online. It is also based on a person's play-style in MPO. Say I am playing online with everyone else as a pure PvE character. I hate PvP. I will not flag for PvP. So the single player online person is not the only person missing out on this event. You cannot the missing zone as a sole example to explain it away when it pertains to more than one. Now, if this specifially pertained to ONLY SPO, then I would agree to using it as an example in a thread that pertains to qualms about features that affect ONLY the single player experience for online and offline features. Can still be used as an example, but one that pertains to more then just SPO.

Now, that is not to say I agree with events and whatnot being designation for PvP areas as it takes away from both the SPO experience, and the experience of the PvE explorer in MPO that will not under any circumstances flag for PvP. Thus, both play-styles are out of a choice because devs want to 'encourage' PvP. I have no way of saying what can be done, as I would probably make a horrible game if I had to. Just something some people will have to experience in game when it happens to get a real feel for it.

******My example about hating PvP does not reflect how I feel about it. It was an EXAMPLE.

And if you weren't just using it as an example for JUST SPO I will apologize ahead of time. I am a little sleepy and my reading comphrehesion has died a horrible death.