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Advanced Taming Spreadsheet (and Assorted Musings)

Discussion in 'Player Created Resources' started by Jaath Windsong, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. Jaath Windsong

    Jaath Windsong Avatar

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    Link for the new spreadsheet…

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9d-Sp8Ceh-qNGVILV8xZE9sa2s/view?usp=sharing

    This one works a bit differently than my last one (located here).

    First, you will have to download this one and put in your skills as it is active i.e. it calculates your focus cost and taming chance based on your stats.

    • Creature Name: Pretty much explains itself...
    • Pre-Tame Hit Points: Again, not too complex
    • Focus Cost: This is computed from the stats entered below and is customized for you (or for you to play ‘what if’, if you like). The formula is (0.05 * Effective Creature Level ^ 2 + 40 ) * (1 + Concentration Bonus).
    • Area: Where I found the beastie, key to the abbreviations is below the chart (rows 58 - 96).
    • Special Abilities: Abilities the beastie has that it retains after taming.
    • Half-life Modifier: Whether the number in the table reflects that I was able to half-life the beastie before taming. Goes from 0 at max HP to 10 at half HP on a linear scale (3/4 HP gives a 5 modifier, etc.) I have no idea how to half-life something with 2 HP, so these beastie's taming score is unmodified. You can change these as you see fit, for example to check your chance against low level mobs that you don't want to try to half-life.
    • Creature Level: My best guess at the internal level of the beastie. These have been modified from the last spreadsheet.
    • Effective Level: The creature level modified by your Combat Training and Summoning Scores. The formula is: Creature Level + Combat Training Bonus up to a maximum of Tamed Creature Max Level + Combat Training Bonus. All decimals are truncated before computation.
    • Minimum Summoning: The minimum number of points needed in Summoning to summon the beastie from a necklace (self-tamed or purchased). It is (Creature Level - 21) with anything less than 1 having no summoning limit listed on the necklace (and showing N/A in the sheet).
    • Tame Level: The modified taming difficulty (with 0 Tame Creature). It is (20 - Creature Level + Half-life Modifier).
    • % Chance to Tame: Customized for you, based on your entered stats. You can play ‘what if’ with your Tame Creature score. It is (Tame Level + Tame Creature Level * 0.6) rounded to the nearest integer. Unlike most of the other numbers, this is handled internally as a decimal (and is now shown as one). See below for details.
    • Rows 57+:
      • Area Names: The key for the areas where I have tamed the beasties. In no way comprehensive.
      • Stats: The top 8 are your taming scores from your Skills windows. The bottom 3 (Combat Training Bonus, etc.) are from your /stats log. Keep the signs e.g. enter TameFocusDrainModifier as a negative number. It is important that they come from the /stats log and not the Skills window…because the Skills window lies. o.0
    These new formulas are fairly well tested, though they are constantly changing as I level up my taming skills. Here are the main points that I have derived (some of which cast the conventional wisdom of ‘level to 40 / 60 / 80 / GM’ into serious doubt…

    · All Creature Levels (that I have derived the formulas for thus far, at least) are dealt with internally as integers. Further, they are not rounded as I previously thought (because the Skills window lies), they are truncated. This means, for example, that if you lock your Combat Training at 80, which equates to 13.65102 Tamed Level Bonus, the Skills window shows you a +14 bonus (it rounds, up in this case), but internally 13.65102 is truncated to 13. You don’t actually get the +14 bonus until 85, which equates to 14.04037 (while the lying Skills window still shows +14). I don’t know the formula for this as I don’t have enough data points to derive it, but it is almost certainly a square root curve, and in the vicinity of 80 it is very close to the square root of (Combat Training * 2) + 1.

    · The Tamed Creature Max Level is dealt with internally in the same way, truncating rather than rounding, but the Skills window shows this as a decimal and can be trusted. (Sort of. It's lied to me before and now I don't believe a thing it says).

    · Because of the order the skills (and their corresponding limits) are applied, you always get your Combat Training bonus, but at the highest pet levels (at the edge of whatever you skills happen to be) it may be worth less than Summoning, and almost definitely clipped by it. For example, 81 Summoning happens to give an 81 Tamed Max Level (81.37907 truncated to 81). As discussed above, 85 Combat Training gives a +14 Tamed Creature Level Bonus. This means that with these stats I could use a Ferocious Wolf Spider (a level 80 pet) with no clipping (as I have a 81 Tamed Max Level). My +14 Combat Training bonus would fully apply, giving me a Level 94 bug. However, if I wanted a higher level pet (any higher level pet, though in this case there are only two that I know of), say a Ferocious Brown, my 81 Summoning would clip the Level 90 Ferocious Brown to Level 81, and I would then get my +14 Combat Training Bonus, giving my new brown bug an effective level of 95. The same would be true for a Ferocious Red (a Level 100 tame).

    · Combat Training appears to use a square root curve, as does Summoning. Until (if?) I (someone?) can derive the actual formulas, there is no real way of knowing what the optimum balance of Summoning and Combat Training is. I suspect Summoning is slightly better, but only slightly, and this is only intuition, not an invitation to start a war.

    · Tame Creature: At the highest levels of taming, there are discrete points that it makes sense to lock out Tame Creature, and they are not 60 / 80 / 100. For example, at 84 Taming you join the Ferocious Tamers Club with a 0.4% chance to tame a Ferocious Wolf Spider (your HUD will still show a <1% chance, because it actually is, but it can be done. Trust me.) Taking your Taming higher than this does almost nothing for you until you hit 101 when you get to a 0.6% chance to tame a Ferocious Brown (at GM Tame Creature you have no chance). While these seem like small chances, by the time you hit these numbers you will be probably be used to (read: sick of) trying to tame the same animal 150 times. Some may argue (and I am really not looking for an argument) that higher chances make your life easier, but I would remind them that at this level a single point of Tame Creature takes in the neighborhood of 100,000 XP. It would very likely take you several times as long to farm that XP as to tame something with a 0.4% chance. Additionally, that same XP, used in Summoning or Combat Training, is actually useful forever once the pet is tamed, something you do once. Of course it is possible that someone could only want to tame and never use the pets to fight, but I don’t think that is how most tamers want to play.

    These are just my observations and intuitions, though most of them are backed up by a lot of taming and fighting with pets. Take what you want from it, and I would love to hear your thoughts and input. As always, if you find a bug, let me know. If you find a Ferocious bug, tame it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
    Bow Vale, Sara Dreygon, Verit and 6 others like this.
  2. MrBlight

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    huh.

    Very interesting, i thought my fero red maxed at around 95/95 summoning/combat passive. took it up to 100/100 and never saw a difference. Thats interesting that you say it peaks at level 100, 113 combat, and 126 summoning ? i will have to give it a try.

    ( 121 taming, 100 summoning, 100 combat passive, 100 collar recover and blah blah )

    Good write up, good info. well done.
     
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  3. Jaath Windsong

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    The reason you don't see actual improvements on some skill-ups and other skill-ups that seem to have no effect on the skill produce an actual improvement is the way the game handles decimals.

    For example, let's imagine you have 78 in Combat Training. This will display +13 Tamed Creature Level in your Skills Window, and strangely enough, it actually gives a +13 to your Tamed Creature Level. However, when you skill-up to 79 the skills window will say you now get +14 to your Tamed Creature Level. It lies, internally the game continues giving you +13 until you have 85 in Summoning. This is why I suggest locking certain skills at certain numbers.

    Some of these points in Combat Training are 85 (+14), 98 (+15), 113 (+17), and 128 (+18). This means that once you hit 98 you don't get any additional benefit from the XP put into it until you hit 113. It would be nice if there was some kind of notification at these points saying something like "Warning! You have 98 Summoning. The next skill gain in this skill requires 3,183,862 Adventurer XP and occurs at Level 113.", but there isn't...

    That being said, you should have seen a gain at 98 Combat Training. Now, since you are GM Combat Training, you can't gain another point until Level 113, and the next one after that is at 128.

    As for GM Summoning, you are gating your bug to Level 89 (less than a Ferocious Brown). Fortunately there is another point to be picked up at 101 Summoning. Your bug won't actually reach full strength until you have 126 Summoning. If you decide to take it there, definitely lock it at 126 because there is nothing in the game (yet, at least) that can benefit from a higher Summoning score.

    Hope that helps! :)
     
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  4. MrBlight

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    i must have missed the 98 in combat training, and 101 for summoning makes sense ( im at 100)

    Very interesting, defintily helps, thanx for the information!
     
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  5. Presto

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    Love from the Bridge Troll! Thanks!
     
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  6. ixo

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    Hello, huge thanks for taming posts and table! I loved taming in UO (once I got it up I mean), and testing it here as well at the moment. Got few questions:
    a) is this taming information table still 100% valid? Were there any changes to taming since March? I ask as in the other thread you apparently mentions Taming needs to go to 40 before you can buy Heal, but I was able to do it at 20 nowadays.
    b) Elder wolf says <1%, does that stays even for critters with negative tame chance? Or is there different taming message.
    c) I have collar recovery XY and it says I have now 103% chance to keep collar on failed taming attempt. Yet I tried to tame elder wolf yesterday (with <1% message, my taming is ~31) and lost 2 collars even with 100%+ chance to NOT lose them. Can you explain? I am quite confused by that.
    d) more of a suggestion, would be good to mention explicitely that while Summoning states it has 10s CD it actually has ~15 mins. Very confusing as well to understand why I cannot summon after dismiss.

    Thanks again, I respect your work immensely!
     
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  7. Pawz

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    Awesome post! My summoning is at 120 and my combat training is at 106 and for the last two levels my pets haven't gone up in hp. spider is stuck at 501 and corp stuck at 531. Are they maxed or should I keep going?
     
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  8. Pawz

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    Hmm I took combat training up to 113 and the pets gained hp again. This is confusing.
     
  9. WeirDave

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    Okay where the heck do I enter in my stats/skills?


    Edit: Nevermind I figured it out...

    Okay my taming is currently at:
    Tame Creature 80
    Heal Creature 99
    Summoning 74
    Obedience 74
    Collar Recovery 74
    Resurrect Creature 61
    Combat Training 73
    Concentration 73
    Refresh 73


    And When I went to tame an Obsidian Wolf it said I was at 12% and I was able to tame it. The spreadsheet lists me as -0.2 to tame?

    So I am not understanding something.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  10. Grimbone

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    Taming has changed some since last release so this spreadsheet needs updating.
     
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