AI chat system. Hmmmm, I'm unsure...

Don't forget, friend, we aren't shooting for a modern "hand holding" game here, but a solid retro style RPG experience.
*Keep your notebook & pen handy.

 

I agree the NPC chat was probably a bit too ambitious for the dev size and funding of SotA. However, this is a ROLE-PLAYING game, us players will just need to role-play with the NPCs and try not to be too overly critical on the chat system.

 

I agree, we should not be overly critical of anything going on here.

I just wish more people were accepting of every aspect of this game and where it's going.

 

So, in the open multiplayer, would everyone see the user talking, but not the NPC ? Such would probably be equally jarring.

Definitely something that will need to be stressed heavily in R3.

 

BillRoy, do I detect a hint of sarcasm?

 

In NWN both side were quite to other players. This would require some selection of the NPCs.

I am not sure they have tackled this issue for Multiplayer, but they know it will be an issue. NPCs are already pretty chatty.

I guess if they at least have channels in the chat window you could make sense of stuff there.

 

No, certainly not.
I'm all on-board with this project.

 

I know its pre-alpha and all, but I'm not quite a fan of the keywords being highlighted. Highlighting the key words immediately takes any of the "magic" of the system away, and throws it right in your face that the NPC will only respond to that single word. Instead of feeling like I'm having a conversation, I feel like I need to find all the keywords and type them in in order to get all the information out of the NPC. You know immediately that this is a dialogue tree that you need to sift through. I don't see any real difference between this system and the standard "click all dialogue" options in MMOs, except that in SotA I am typing the words on my screens instead of clicking on them. The system is the same, the interface is different.

 

In the dialogs of clicking type you basically click randomly, knowing your answers dont affect the quest in a significant way and you get a quest in the end telling you where to go and what to do in the form of quest log. SotA doesn't do that. You have to actually read through what the NPC says in order to learn where to go and what do do.

Personally I like the typing stuff. It feels like role playing to me. Some don't. But then again, many people didn't like LotRO dialogs either, finding them boring.Its a matter of taste, I guess.

A good idea would be to direct players to type whole sentences by barring the use of single keywords with the "I am not sure what you are asking" type of NPC answers.
As many of you said, the chat system is being worked on and will continue to be worked on even after release in the form of adding more NPC answers, by checking out the analytics of the game to see what the players say to NPCs. This is a testing phase and our "talks" with the NPCs could help the devs to add more answers to the NPC dialogs.

 

wh@'2 73h Pr0bl3M?

 

I would say by not having a quest log, you have already solved this problem; whether you use a dialogue tree or free text is irrelevant. If you don't read what they say, you won't know what to do, because the game is not giving all the pertinent information to you afterwards in a nicely organized quest log with map markers, etc. It's never been the dialogue system that caused people to skip all the text, it was always the hand-holding quest log system.

I mean, U7 had a dialogue tree and if you just clicked away, you learned NOTHING.

 

But in MMOs people are known to oversimplify things. Eventually they will ask for a quest log, etc...Not to mention 3rd party software which might become available.

 

There could always be an option to toggle the 'bold' keywords on and off.

 

They can ask all they want. RG won't give it to them. It's one of the main mission statements. As for 3rd party mods, you can't stop that regardless of the dialogue system used. It doesn't really change the point I'm trying to make, which is: People skip dialogue, not because of the dialogue system, but because of quest logs and similar systems.

 

I hadn't thought about that, but I think you may have a good point. If I know I need to read the dialogue in order to know where to go next (since there are no other methods), then I will likely read it.

Joe
The Unseen Dragon

 

More keywords would be nice, both essential & non-. Hopefully the one-word responses are fixed by the final release.

I haven't tried yet, but is it possible to aggravate an NPC to a point of dismissal?

Or to charm them beyond their apparent usefulness, and have them reward you as such (more intel, a voucher, etc.)?

I might have an idea, here.

It would be a lot of work... but how about a scaled word-value system based upon the NPC type with which you're speaking? It's akin to the D20 system, and would still utilize the keyword system (so maybe not a big overhaul).

For example, three conversation types (of many):

a peasant, a guard, and a priest.

**

The conversation with the peasant begins, and you say,
"Hail, old woman!"

The peasant may either be offended, or jealous, feel respected, whatever. That's up to the devs. Let's assume they're offended by your weird, smothering sense of formality.

They'll begin at a low range of respect -- we'll say three points, in this exercise.

Saying "hail" has net you -1.
Calling the peasant "old woman" has also net you -1. Turns out, he's a man.

Angry, he responds, "My name is Dennis!" and dismisses you. Any further attempts to speak result in a revolutionary tirade and him making a scene of the violence inherent in the system.

Shouting, "Be quiet, you fool!!" affects everyone around, temporarily hurting your image. -1 to all in earshot.

**

Calling a guard, "sire" may up his respect for you, and make him even more helpful. +1! Wearing a tabard with the town insignia -- even better! +1.25!

Let's not forget to bribe him! +2! Not enough gold? -5!

**

A priest would be humbled by the wearing of a religious icon -- +1!

So on and so forth.

**

Is this possible? Too much work?

I figure using points could be applied across the board -- assign them to pronouns, adjectives, even context. It requires work from the player, but it shouldn't keep them chatting with said NPCs longer than they want.

Gibberish would be a tough cookie to crack. Too much of something that they don't understand, and they become confused? *shrug* Kind of a crunch, there..

Another example:

You're trying to avenge someone's death, and need information from their unknowing friend. If you mention said death, then the conversation is forfeit. They splinter and collapse into a sobbing wretch. Like this, the lack of a quest log makes your chosen dialogue not only challenging, but pivotal.

So, if you don't earn x amount of points, then things won't go as planned. They simply won't want to talk with you.

In this way, you're no longer ENTITLED to a conversation with someone, or their quest. Conversational points would be temporary and limited to the individual, though they may recognize you for your great deeds. Now, you truly must roleplay to earn said conversation, quest, or reward -- same as tabletop.

Whew. That was more long-winded than I wanted. Sorry! Just an idea.

Sent from my EVA Unit-01 using Tapatalk

 

Unfortunately, without a proper grammar checking system in place, that would simply lead to users padding their sentences with words to get around the block.

"Job" would become "asdf Job?" or some such nonsense.

And strictly speaking, in some circumstances asking someone using a one word sentence is proper. NPC: "Yes, if you ask about my home, I will tell thee". Your response : "Home?"

Good idea though.

 

*shrugs* I try

 

I love the idea of old-style NPC chat, but unfortunately I agree 100% with the original poster.

 

Yep, people will indeed continue to ask and it'll be interesting if Richard caves in to the casuals. To quote Richard in an interview with Warcry, which I posted about here:
"I think the constant over-simplification of games has left us with something that's completely brain-dead...In Shroud of the Avatar there will absolutely not be a quest log, there will absolutely not be an arrow on the map. There absolutely is not going to be any dialogue menus. You have a conversation with an NPC by having a conversation in typed English."