Are People Here Really Ok With This Sort of Thing?

So they took a item in the Unity store,which is not available for us to use and made it where we could buy it if we wished to. The fact that it was free to them means nothing to me, SotA needs a flow of money to pay salaries,overhead, continued development and so on. Even if they didn't retouch the original product still means nothing. No one is arm twisting anyone to purchase it and I feel everyone is aware the add-on store is there 1. To provide a money flow for the company 2. To provide anyone who chooses to,have more items to decorate with or sell in game for gold, store credits or real life money,especially if it's discontinued.

 

It's not about the crafter having to create everything him/herself. The painter doesn't make his own paint either. That's not the issue.

Ever been to an artist alley at a convention? It's a place where local and independent artists can sell their art to the public; the public can even ask for commission artwork. You can buy printed copies or even the original piece. Of course the original piece is going to cost a lot more because there's only one of them. The printed copies cost just enough so that the artist can cover the printing costs and can make some profit out of them.

Now, the public aren't mad because these artists are selling fanart... you know, they didn't create the characters, they didn't make the paper or their pens and pencils. They just did cool artwork. That's enough to warrant support.

The thing is, if an artist was to sell a piece that wasn't originally drawn by him/her... say, the artist traced over some other piece, changed the colours slightly and put this new piece inside a frame... and say that artist is charging just as much as an original piece for it. How do you think the public would react?

I don't think anyone expect you guys to build everything yourselves... but I do have to question when you're selling that stuff back to us (at that price).

Much respect,
Gix.

 

It's not plagiarism. Not needing to give credit to the original artist is kinda how it works.

 

The difference is the asset store exists for this very purpose for people to reuse their art. They are not ripping off the original author by 'tracing' and 'coloring' his work. the author specifically allows that. The license also specifically disallow reselling it for general use, the art can only be made avaliable for use within this game, to avoid the artists customers competing directly with the artist as your example of street art claims.

Maybe the author is posting a free to use portfolio just because they want to make a name for themselves. Maybe their value will go up if they can claim 'as seen in SOTA'. The same thing happens with claim-free music that many youtubers use.

Here is a very famous example of artwork that is nothing more than ripping off someone elses production art by tracing and coloring.



The production costs of the art have nothing to do with the final price, the point of the dev posts is it was not free to put it in the game, and the reason for the store is to fund the rest of the game by creating objects of rarity that people will value, which cannot be accomplished by low prices that reflect production costs.

 

@yarnevk The Unity Asset store exists to allow game developers to build games; not resell assets.

If Portalarium wants to continue to fund their game, I highly suggest that they sell their own artwork. By all means, leep using the Unity Assets... just don't resell them regardless of how much you repackaged the product!

I want you to go find an artist, tell this to their face, and come back and describe their reaction to me.

 

It is all about income vs expenditure. Anyone who believes that Portalarium has $11 million must also believe that they pay no rent, have no electricity bills, are provided with free hosting for their servers, are given free insurance, office furniture, computers, etc. and that everyone who works there does so without pay.

It stands to reason that most of that $11 million has been spent. What matters is whether Portalarium can ensure that income matches or exceeds expenditure, and an important part of that process is the add-on store. I have no problem with them selling anything on there that they are legally entitled to sell, and trust them to make whatever business decisions are required to ensure a successful completion of the project.

PS: The term "Kickstarter" refers to raising a sum of money required to initiate (or "kick start") a project. Typically more money will be required to complete the project. (The Kickstarter for Star Citizen raised $2,134,374. Since then they have raised an additional $137,869,234.)

EDIT: My mistake. Apparently Kickstarter states that funds raised are for the entire project. Common practice, however, ignores that. Every game Kickstarter that I have backed has required additional funds to complete the project. (See above for the most obvious example.)

 

It's absolutely no secret that purchased unity assets were going to be used to make the game. What does it matter whether those assets cost $0, $100 or $500?.......it doesn't matter one iota. As a business Portalarium will of course have done everything required in terms of licencing that lets them pretty much do what they like with the assets.

The only thing I question is the price of things on the store (regardless of how the asset has been obtained).......It is off-putting, that being said the income needs to come from somewhere........the more people who play the easier the game is to fund and I would expect the average price of a store item to reduce.

A $50 statue of a horse.......these days I think i would rather spend $40 on the game and gift it to a friend. Having another person in the game is a much better asset then any horse statue.

 

I understand perceived value loss by getting something free on the left and charging on the right. I also understand what we're asking: a buy-to-play game that has no subscription with monthly content releases... how else do they make money? If they get 100% of all the assets for free and they didn't do any of the art themselves and charged me for it... I'd still be okay with it (in reality, that "free" art comes with time to set up how it works, tweaks, tuning it for the game, optimizing it for performance, sometimes redoing it from the ground up). I'm paying for the game, story, systems, programming, etc. I'm paying for the inner workings. The business choices on which items fit the look/feel... and the smart business choice to not waste my money as a backer.

So, to their choice on doing this: Huzzah and thanks!

 

Not to derail anything, but occasionally this needs to be corrected. Please see here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics?ref=faq_nav#Kick

(I added emphasis).

 

This thread tho....

 

Well, regardless of what Kickstarter says, Portalarium has maintained from the beginning that they were using Kickstarter to determine the amount of interest there was in this type of game. They determined a million dollars raised would indicate that it was worth pursuing development. They've always indicated they would have to raise more funds through other means, including investors and an add-on store.

 

In reality, everyone here, who cares about SotA and is a supporter, should be fine with this. It's legit after all.

The only people I can think of who shouldn't be fine with this are competitor games who are making less money now that SotA is on the scene, and whose financial platforms are not as viable as Portalariums (this case specifically) AND who are likely also nervous now that SotA is being kicked into high gear as of these last two releases.

 

Ok, my last post in this thread on this, I promise. I still can't find on the kickstarter page where it says this. I only found out this intention long after the kickstarter when I came across a video discussing this plan to a non-kickstarter audience. I also don't know where kickstarter told Port they didn't have to follow the rules of their service. Having the perspective you have is like being asked to disclose the amount of capital you need to the bank for a business loan, and then 2 years later, when asked by the bank, 'why are you still raising capital?' you respond, 'oh yeah, that business loan was just to gauge interest for the business plan, didn't you read the post it note I left you in the application that told you we'd really need like more than 10 times that amount?'

 

I will say it again since most people and the development team just want to wish it goes away and gets ignored.

The MAIN problem is not they are reselling items, they are overcharging for sure but sure that is their right.

THE PROBLEM IS THEY HAVE YET TO COMPLETE WHAT THEY HAVE ALREAYD SOLD.

you cannot just post statements like "we are not going to work on PLEDGED items with new assets "..... but continue to develop items and spend MINIMAL time doing so to create more income.

There has been more than enough money "invested" by the supporters to finish what has already been sold but, they are failing to complete these items.

Development for these horses took less than 5 minutes to modify it for the game (if that) . . . . .

 

You still can't justified $50 for a statue. not even $20.
Sorry.
I wont get frustrated by that builder, as this builder wont try to sell his tools either. Build the house and don't get greedy or I will ask to someone else to do it.
Market law.

 

You are wrong, the artist specifically allows selling assets within an MMO where they cannot be reused for any other purpose. If that license violates the terms of Unity Asset store, it would be removed. You are jumping all over Portalarium for doing this, when the artist specifically allows it, the Asset Store does not disallow it, and Portalarium said from the very start that they picked Unity for their asset base (both code and art). The price is not for the effort to do the art, the price is the 'subscription' for supporting the game, with a gift of art. Just like when you pay $200 for that classical CD during the classical radio pledge drive, even though you can find it for $2 at the closeout CD store.

I know plenty of starving artists who give their work away for free to build a portfolio and a name, where did you think the term 'starving artist' comes from? Artists starve until they get 'discovered'. Look at any modding scene for any game and you see free work from people wanting to get a game art job. Unity is the same thing on a larger scale, because peoples 'modding' work is not tied to a particular game editor.

If you have an issue with this then you need to take it up with the horse artist, and tell him he should not be giving away his horse and letting a MMO resell it just because you do not like it.

 

Do them a favour and punch them in the face for giving their work for free. It undermines the entire industry and you're not helping by accepting that this is something that they have to do.

To build a portfolio, you just need to make the art and show it to people. It doesn't mean that they should give it away for free unless they're working on a license that they have no rights to make profit off of. If the art is good, they will get noticed... it's even easier to get noticed on the internet!

Here's a pro tip to be on the good side of the guy who's looking at portfolios: stop drawing cars, dragons, elves, orcs and pin-ups. We've seen countless of them! That car you drew better be the best piece of art in the world if you want these people to keep your name on the calling list.

Most mods are free, yes... but most accept donations and people don't repackage other people's mods to sell it later on. If someone's making money off your work, you better get paid!

Oh, so now we can't support the game or the company because we have problems with how they handle certain things?

Portalarium has every right to charge whatever they feel like, that doesn't change how others might perceive their actions... nor should these people be silenced/peer-pressured from sharing those concerns either.

It's not illegal to spit in other people's faces; it's just really bad form.

 

In the US, spitting in someone's face is battery..ergo, illegal.

 

I stand corrected; although my original point still stands.

 

The unity store exists for whatever reason you want, as artist, they are no forcing you to sell things or give them for free. Let others decide what they want using these platforms

About the reaction to this. You could ask to me directly (2d/3d artist). Where is the problem with this? I have met artists in the past very happy to see their work in games and films with no monetary gain, this helps a lot in your initiation looking for a future job for example.

There are a lot of ways to make things happen in this industry and to become successful, the charges are not always the main goal when you are an artist.