Balance - at what point do you stop?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dinsoo, Sep 30, 2018.

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  1. Scanphor

    Scanphor Avatar

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    I believe that the way they approach it (huge sweeping changes without seemingly considering the effect on all players) is a significant factor in why the game has such a low population tbh. Most games approach such changes somewhat more cautiously.
     
  2. Scanphor

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    Very true
     
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  3. Brewton

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    That's the pot calling the kettle black.
     
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  4. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

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    balance is, generally, far easier to achieve with tweezers than with hammers.
     
  5. Greyfox

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    If the population was healthy and increasing I would personally support any balancing options deemed necessary. Having spent years with SOTA the game seems to be hanging on by a thread and no more excuses remain. Severe arbitrary nerfing is a significant threat to the future of this game and makes people leave.

    So all I can ask is, WHY?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
  6. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    I stand corrected, I thought that many of my skills were balanced lower this last patch, turns out that stacking of some of the skills is broken. Example Enlighten 6 stacks right now is less then 1 stack. so I can't complain, but I do think that balance should be spread out over a few months.
     
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  7. jammaplaya

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    One thing to consider here is that there is no real skill cap in this game. In essence, you can GM every skill in the game, making major changes to balance much easier to deal with than in other games.

    So while I can understand some of the harsher tones coming from those who may have found their niche in this game only to have it altered, I still would say that in any situation there is ample room for adaptation.

    !
     
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  8. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    Never.
     
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  9. Black Tortoise

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    so much f.u.d. ....
     
  10. Gorthyn

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    For me the problem is that so much more of this "balancing" should have been thought through and implemented long ago instead of so much of the other stuff (which is often only half implemented anyway). Get the foundations right and then work on the fluff and nice to haves. Not the other way round.
     
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  11. ShurTugal

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    The balance never stops as well it shouldn't. Look at it this way. I started playing at final wipe which was over 2 years ago. In that time I changed up my build many times as I learned and decided what worked for me. also in that time I have progressed my character to the level where many of the scenes including the top tier zones are way to easy and therefore boring for me. There are many others that have advanced their characters far beyond mine and if I am getting bored because I am not being challenged anymore I can imagine what they are experiencing. When we get bored of a game we leave. They NEED to keep balancing the game and tweaking difficulties of scenes as the veteran players become more veteran and as characters get stronger and outgrow the scenes as they currently are. Everyone keeps screaming "players are leaving, players are leaving" I say show me the data that supports this. people seam to think that since a few people they know have "left" the game, that implies people are leaving in droves. that's not the case. people come and go from mmo's. That don't mean the game is dying. I started on eve many years ago. I currently don't play eve even though I have multiple account because my attentions have gone elsewhere. I may play eve again but I don't know at this time. I know plenty of people who stopped playing eve because of some changes they made to the game a while back. does that means the game is dying and "people are leaving!!" absolutely NOT. People come and people go but the game continues so stop this nonsense people and just play the game. If you don't like the direction the game is going, there are plenty of other alternatives out their for you to choose. To your comment of the "plenty of forums" I say this. I only see a very small "minority" of people creating these threads and commenting in them supporting your view. Just because this "very small minority" are so vocal about their views does NOT make this the view of the MAJORITY which is where port needs to focus their attention which I believe they are. Balance will continue to happen as well it should and change will continue to happen as well it should and if you don't like it, don't try to ruin things for the rest of us.... move on.... we won't miss you :) cheers mate :) :)
     
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  12. Nib

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    I would like to see the "data" on this so called small minority. Also your post reeks of elitism, I have reached Blank adventure level now I want the ladder removed so no one else can get there. Creating new more difficult content is the solution not simply just cranking the dial up on old content.
     
  13. ShurTugal

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    exactly my point. I would like to see the data on these "mass droves" of people leaving and this "game killing" that is taking place. the reality is neither of us has the data. what I have is the same names that keep popping up in these threads either as the creator of the threads or those commenting and it is the same ole names each time. Its not elitism to understand that things evolve (ie the player skill level ) and that the game needs to adapt to those changes and making new scenes all the time is not the answer either because you people seem to conveniently forget that port is working with a small team and a smaller budget than many mainstream games have and as such they need to work within the confines of those limitations. I would LOVE it if each release they have new more challenging scenes to offer but that is just not realistic but I have come to the conclusion that you ( and yours is one of the names that keep popping up ) are close minded to any of the realities of the world and just want to be right as opposed to correct and so I imagine my words, and the words of others who understand these things, will be lost on you. Rock on with your small minority brother but understand that's all it is and there are many more of us out there that support the game and support port and will continue to push back harder against those like you. :) cheers mate :)
     
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  14. Nib

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    For a lot of people its friends who have quit you can also check your friends list to see people who haven't logged on forever, and ummm I don't really want to comment on the downsizing.
     
  15. Spungwa

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    I hope never.

    I like the Eve Online approach to balance. Don't try to make everything completely balanced, as it is impossible without making all archetype basically only ascetically different rather than functionally different.

    Purposely change stuff to change the META rather than achieve perfect balance. "Every dog gets it day" this way, but will not ALWAYS be the best due to changes. For me makes for a more interesting and dynamic game in a classless completely open build game.
    If you are playing in a period where your preferred build is under powered level an alternative build, unfortunately specialisation broke this a bit, which is why I was anti specialisation #1. Even an under powered build is not a problem in PvE as I have found all builds to be viable in PvE, if levelled and refined correctly with gear and deck, but not optimal.

    #1 I would actually rather be able to level all specialisations but only have 2 active at a time. Though the scroll of unlearning (for 3 COTOs) kind of mitigates this now it is 100% return.


    Regards
    Spung
     
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  16. Lady Kathleen

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    To the young whipper snapper that claims he has played games far longer than than anyone else at 36. I have got news for you.

    There are some of us that are in our 60's that are retired now and that have and can play all day long and do. 105k plus hours is nothing as many of us, as can easily double that number.

    Claims of "You need to play and redo your build like I do" are not the solution for many people.

    This is a "GAME" a game should be fun not just boring or frustrating.

    Balance does not mean crippling the majority of your player base to satisfy one % of the players, as well as balance dose not also mean always keeping thing status quo.

    Balance also does not mean make all players play the game as a _______ because someone thinks _____ are better, Balance means no matter which skills you decide on there should be a way to play with them a gain ground over time.

    Honestly I love playing as a ranger and always have, and in this game for a long time I felt I was getting better at it and gaining over time to become better. I never expected to win all the time and welcome challenges. But to suddenly hit the same mob from a few days ago for 1/2 the amount or 0 (Zero) and they do double the damage, just feels like stacking the deck against you.

    Many say the solution is find a group..... Well that is a great solution for some, but their are many like myself that "LIKE" to solo and in the offline all you can do is solo then this solution becomes no solution at all. When you have to depend on a group to do everything, this does not feel like a challenge. If your going to make a SOLO version of the game (Offline) then why would you make all version only group dependent. (Yes you can have companions in offline, but they are no where near the same as a group, they are just mild distractions to a mob only 1% of the time, if at all)

    I agree with nib when he says "Creating new more difficult content is the solution not simply just cranking the dial up on old content."

    When you create a new areas that are harder than what you have currently (I don't care that these area are just duplicates of current areas just cranked up) gives all the "Elite" players and one %'ers a place to feel superior, while keeping the base, new or casual players from feeling crippled at every turn.

    I have spent a lot of time and money in the game and I do not enjoy hearing things like "if you don't like it, don't try to ruin things for the rest of us.... move on.... we won't miss you" anymore than I like hearing "do it my way or I will leave" I believe there are solutions that could can work as long as people keep talking and sharing their ideas.
     
  17. kaeshiva

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    Yes this game certainly has a habit of slamming the door in everyone's face - I get to the point that I can just about do the stuff that the "big kids" are doing and WHAM, nope, its changed to be either impossible or no longer worth it.
    This has happened several times since persistence on a smaller scale, but R58 is a whammy.

    There are dozens of empty, unused, abandoned, never-visited scenes in the game. It would make more sense to me to leave the scenes that people play in and enjoy ALONE and do this new harder crap in some of those areas to bring them up to par.
     
  18. Kain Darkmoor

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    Massive nerfs are one of the main reasons for people leaving so it shocks me that they keep going down that road.
     
  19. Spungwa

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    But we don't determine PAR, Port does.

    I agree doing what you say would create less rage though.


    Regards
    Spung
     
  20. Arya Stoneheart

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    Not happy about the HP increase for the Obs wolves - 1,100 and bears - 900.

    The wolves also went back to being yellow for me - now you have to work harder to get meat for the 4 hour foods.
     
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