Bard - Pulls to much aggro

I don't think the type of armor has anything to do with aggro (unless it specifically has been imbued with something that affects aggro). The different armor trees have skills that affect aggro though, like the heavy armor tree has the Taunt skill that increases aggro and the light armor tree has the Escape skill that lowers aggro.

 

Like barugon said. Outside of the 3 aggro related skills (Taunt & Provoking shout for heavy armor, and escape for light armor) there is no difference in aggro generation from armor. 2 people doing the same amount of damage, 1 in full plate, the other in full Cloth, will generate exactly the same amount of aggro.

 

Since these from Chris are the only few words we actually have on the subject, I think we are guessing or assuming.

Currently "Guy" uses only a single buff, Enlightenment, which accounts for the low aggro he generates. Less buffs = less aggro.

Heavy Armor in (all?) it's buffs x2 and Shields buffs X1.5... Those are mentioned.

The aggro armor differences are within the matierials used(?):
The difference between leather armor aggro and cotton armor aggro are "in the critical numbers" the materials themselves enhance crits. Damage equalling aggro, if crit chance is higher, then crit damage translates into increased aggro. Cotton does not enhance crit chance or damage, thus less "passive aggro", meaning the argo any individual chr generally produces in their normal combat blows.

If damage due to armor (and weapon) material effects are considered, then "+Intel" enchantments would add damage, thus increase aggro, "+Dex" in a lesser amount, "+Focus" effects on combat would also effect aggro, and even health due to being able to take more damage, thus translating into more in-combat time. Yet they are not all equal to each other and very depending on what armor is being worn which have any of those enhancements.

So... simple cotton armor comes out below all other forms of armor due to these above mentioned matierial and enchantment values.
https://sotawiki.net/sota/Materials
https://sotawiki.net/sota/Enchantment

If we are to go deeper than assumption, then all factors need to be identified through what ways they translate into our individual chr's aggro calculations.

If those factors are true when translating into crit damage, weapons damage, the ability to inflict more damage through increased focus or ability to remain in combat through health, or the casting interuption thus being effected by Dex... if all those factors effect outcome, then both of your above quoted comments are un-true.

Am I right?
Am I wrong?

When we think in the spirit of the mouse rings, low aggro becomes more than just gliph buffs and enters the crafting matierial choices and enchantments we choose, when seeking to become the mouse.

The tiniest aggro footprint, is within cloth as it should be, if I am not mistaken in all the factors I've mentioned. The cotton armor enhancements I choose are mostly health, followed by focus, in order to be able to take a heavy blow and heal it, thus a low aggro cloth suit.

If we are hunting in group, then this works well "for a healer" type of chr build, but in solo, the idea (as yet to be tested) is to cause the summoned pet to become the tank and thus making the "Escape" skill a viable combat option.
~Time Lord~

 

The way you look at it, you aren't wrong, no, but you are also looking at something where the impact would be so minor that it wouldn't be noticeable.

You could take someone with full int on their cloth armor, and take someone with full focus on theirs, but Gem some attunement on the focus armor, and all of a sudden, the focus armor deals more damage.

The thing is, at this point, you could even consider different decks to hold different aggro generation, and that's looking into the min-maxing of things to a point where it's not even worth considering looking into.

Yes, having more intelligence as a spellcaster results in more damage, but INT does not = More aggro, it is the damage that generates the aggro.

The way I see your analysis, it would be like saying that someone with long legs is a better soccer/football player, because he can cover more distance per step, and while that is true, there are so many other factors that come into play, that you probably never hear an analysis that looks like "Yes Colton, with Perry's 93cm legs, you can clearly see the advantage over his teammate Grenier who's legs are 90cm"

Simply put, if a person in heavy armor and someone in Light armor do auto attacks that hit for the same amount, they will generate the same aggro, it is the skills that will have an impact, the results in the end, I have seen multiple light armor users generate so much aggro that tanks had problems keeping the mobs attention on them.

So once again, armor weight has no impact on aggro generation in itself, it's the skills used and the output that actually has an impact in the end.

 

Distance in and of aggro comes into question here, just as there is radious distance differences depending on the amount of Escape skill.
The effectiveness of Cocoon of Night, Night Step, Vanish, Camouflage, Silent Movement and possibly even Distract come into question within the min-max considerations.
I would assume that mouse rings do not have distance, yet that is an assumption. If aggro is similar to a light switch, then the distance of whatever aggro's attractiveness is becomes a question.
A Bard's song has a shape to it which is 3 dimentional, yet it's effect below the bard is a much smaller radious than at the Bard's hight. I "assume" that the Escape skill has a similar shape and thus there must be radious limits to aggro, yet are those radious limits effected by the amount of aggro any individual chr may generate? That question is fully based on assumptions, yet it further seeks to describe what is yet fully describeable.

Min-Max the shape of aggro? (becoming insignificant)
Light for instance has a fixed distance of effect, while Night Vision which once had unlimited effect, now fades in seeing distances, thus having a limited radious, yet both are fixed radious of effect. I "assume" this is the case with aggro, yet that is based on the assumption that aggro does not act in the same way as "Escape", scaling up or down depending on the amount.

Gathering within the deadly creatures...
A bear will not run very far to kill a rabbit, yet will "tell" on an avatar at significantly longer range? Does aggro scale with amount generated? I'm skeptical when it comes to that question, because when inflicting large amounts of damage on large creatures, this does not translate into calling creatures at larger distances because of the damage being done. Thus I "assume" there are limits to the radious. If the rabbit has a lower aggro distance, do mouse rings do the same, scaling down the chrs aggro limits? Does Escape work in the same way, I "assume" it has no lasting effect, only blink effect.

Some of the above has nothing to do with the goals of "Guy" the chr. All I can say of his developing tactics is to have no active buffs until the moment of striking, when the Enlightenment is then engaged, Solar Flare is used until focus is exhausted, then Escape engaged to reduce his aggro signature.

Everything has a radious, what all effects what radious or what can effect radious, I don't know, but I want to find out when it comes to aggro.

~Time Lord~

 

I believe distance units in SotA are meters, so you can get an idea of how far 17 meters is. Also, all the models in SotA work from a central axis point. If a mob's axis is within a straight line distance of 17 meters from your axis - and it's not obscured by a fixed object like terrain, trees or walls - then the mob's aggression toward you is reduced by the specified amount (I forget what that is at the moment but it's more than 220 at skill level 120).

 

i think it would be amazing to be able to see the aggro table for an NPC, or in the least the aggro it has towards you and your pet (if you have one). i think it would be a giant leap forward in helping us understand how aggro is affected by the things we do.

maybe @DavidDC can do something to open that information up a bit. maybe something on hover of the NPC nameplate showing aggro level towards you and your pet? or maybe even a lua function to get that info and allow us to make a UI for it? ShroudGetTargetAggroLevel(player_name) would return aggro level the players current target has for the passed player and their pet.

 

how do you see your argo number level?

 

You do not see this number, it is one of those systems where understanding how it works allows you to try and control it, but you have no actual data to help that control.

Basically what I mean is if you are playing with a pet or another party member, then you know you can stand close enough to the mob and cast escape to reduce your aggro, shifting the mobs attention to the other target, meanwhile as a tank you know you can use Provoking shout and Taunt to redirect mobs aggro towards you.

You also know that the more damage or healing you do, or the more debuffs you apply, the more aggro you generate, so if you manage to steal the aggro from someone who should be holding it, then you know you need to play with those factors to reduce your threat generation.

This Video I made with Mimner shows a bit how we managed to ensure he was tanking. In this video, we do a few specific things :

1. Mimner engages every fight, being the first person the mobs see means their attention is directed towards them.
2. Mimner then Casts Atonal Aria, a song that will deal damage every 2 seconds, ensure constant threat generation.
3. I then join in on the fight and apply Buffs for me and Mimner, ensuring we both do high damage.
4. Now I cast my own Atonal Aria, because Mimner has already been generating Aggro with his own Aria and his attacks, meaning unless I start outshining him in terms of DPS and debuffs, he will maintain attention on himself for the entire fight.

In these fights, Mimner uses bludgeon, which applies resistance and weapon damage debuffs, as well as stuns or knockdown, all generating heaps of aggro, meanwhile I am using blades, which has much less debuffs. I also manage my application of rend to not use it too fast, because since I ca stack it 3 different times and all three times applies a damage over time and a health regen debuff, I don't want it to steal aggro away.

Do we see any numbers of our own respective threat levels during these fights? No, but since we know how to control this system, we have no issues ensuring the aggro is on the right person.


Hope this helps!

 

That is a good description.

Poison Aggro?
I do wonder if Poison has any aggro the same way Rend does. Poison isn't exactly damage from a weapon or buff, other than the Avatar's Poison skill increasing the Poison's duration.

Poison is still attached to the Avatar who delivered it.

~TL~

 

For certain, if you have applied a poison to your weapon, every auto-attack or charged attack applies not only the aggro for the hit, but also the poison debuff.

What I do not know for certain is if every subsequent tick of the poison will apply more aggro, but unless you've stopped fighting, you are generally still auto-attacking and thus re-applying the poison, so it would work like mentioned above in this scenario.

 

I "believe" I have seen aggro from the use of poisons, but I don't know that for sure.

I have a chr named "Auto Swing" who's poison skill is 140, meaning the poison effect last quite a while. I cannot however, say that I've seen increased aggro when using multiple poisons, all on the same target, all at the same time.

I may "presume" poisons deliver aggro, yet should I have not seen even more increased aggro when I've applied multiple poisons?

Is it the lingering effects that generate aggro or the initial strike? ...and if it is just the strike itself, are we saying that the more skill in poison anyone has, does not effect aggro any more than a player with 10 skill in poison?

It's questions like these which cause me to doubt what results I "suspect" I sometimes see.
~TL~

 

That's exactly the part I said I am not sure about, I know the initial strike does, but I don't know about the lingering effect.

The question is, how would you have evaluated that? It's tough to determine, because if you are solo, this changes absolutely nothing, since you are the target either way. Meanwhile, if you are in a group, how can you be certain the person who does hold aggro is not generating so much aggro that no matter what you do you can't steal it away from them? In a scenario where the aggro would bounce over from you to someone else, the best thing would be to reduce the amounts of poisons you are using so the target stays on the other person, and that would be the best way to confirm it works, but in any other scenario, you won't be able to evaluate how much each thing does and how much of a difference each thing does.