Buff Dex

Buff Dex

Disclaimer : I have not completely tested this (ie run load of numbers and tests) and without 100% refund i'm not going to.

Disclaimer aside, it seems that after while the diminishing returns on Dex means taking Dex very high is not worth it for even dex based builds.
Str has secondary advantages that increase HP and carry capacity that seem to either be linear or less diminishing returns than dex. Int seems the same for max focus instead of HP.

So after a while even Dex builds are better off getting the other stats higher than their dex for the XP investment return than dex.

I would suggest adding a secondary stat change to Dex that is linear (or along the same lines as Str and Int) for Dex. Making it worth while to have a high Dex build.
My thought is Dex could add a very low but linear in combat HP regen. For example have each point of Dex increase in combat HP regen. Make it low so that say 0.01 HP/s in combat HP regen per point, this means that at 80 Dex it is the same as using one of the surprise food buffs.


Other peoples thoughts? If anyone has seen an advantage to taking Dex high, and by high I mean above 100, then i would be interested to hear what it is.

Regards
Spung

 

Your understanding is sound at a certain point most skills can be left at 80. I have many like this as any more exp spent there does not really give the bang for the buck. Now there are a few cases but those are where you take them to 150 or higher and doing that just costs to much .

The critical hit chance does not pan out to do that much more- and with the Attack from behind taking a hit also Dex and I am guessing you are ranged is also getting balanced out to = uselessness

 

I'm happy with the diminishing returns, in fact i think diminishing returns is a good mechanic for long term health of the game, but you should always be considering the benefit vs the XP investment. It seems to me that dex does not stack up against str or int for that XP investment vs benefit at high levels even for builds that are considered dex primary attribute builds.

 

dex provides benefit to ranged skills, combat dodge, and is the best way to increase lightning stun chance.

I don't even use weapons and dex is my 2nd most important stat... i really don't understand the "we have it the worst" with dex..

 

how critical hit chance?

only a single spell tree boost

His concern is more that Str and Intel give a generalized boost across the board where dex is extremely limited.

 

lol

 

am i wrong? I guess it only gives you a higher chance to hit and a higher crit rate with bows... nothing particular..

I don't know how you can get more general of a benefit than "chance to dodge an attack," though... i mean every build benefits from this. I would equate that to higher hp or focus in terms of utility.

Ranged/melee crits is comparable to spell crits.

chance to hit with ranged/melee is comparable to spell damage...

I think the real inequality is maybe that str has too many benefits? carry capacity, damage modifier, health, chance to block, cc resist, extra damage for earth/bludgeon.

 

These benefits are not specific to ranged.

 

Its not that Dex is useless, far from it, it's that it very quickly comes to point where more dex is of so little benefit to you that you are better off with more str or int. These don't have so little a benefit even at higher level, meaning even if you already have them higher than your dex they are still a better choice.

Yes you could argue to nerf str and int with it secondary benefits, but why nerf 2 things when you can just make the single one a more viable option. Currently i don't consider any dex above 100 viable as a choice for either training or putting on gear.

As I said if someone can tell me how having a dex higher than 100 (i don't mean skill level, i mean 100 dex on the cloth doll) has a significant increase i am happy to be corrected, but i have not found anything. All the example above just say it "help", well does it help enough after 100 to be worth more than more HP for example.

 

Dex increases crit chance and chance to hit for physical attacks... melee and ranged. It does not increase your chance to dodge directly, rather it is used as a stat checker against the other persons dex. This means you must roll a dodge first and then it compares your dex to theres to see if it goes through. I will see if I can find the formula.(Chris said INT in the future too, not sure if implemented)

I usually run around with around 170+ dex depending on the moon. 190 when testing stuff. There is not really much difference between 140 dex and 190 dex. I was testing crit damage the other day and didn't even notice my DEX buff ran out. I was still hitting the same numbers. On the other hand, having 190 STR or INT is huge for melee or magic users. I think my fire skills jump like 20 damage when I go from 120 INT to 140 with the INT buff.

 

i mean, to me a (100 dex) 50% vs a 70% (200 dex) chance to stun is significant.. i don't have any characters with that kind of dex to test it out but that's roughly the benefit i'm seeing at my level..

also the chance to dodge is really important for pvp and boss fights... but i don't know the math there either.

I definitely do not get 20 more damage out of 20 int. personally my buff gives me 40 int and 10% additional spell crits, and i also forget to cast sometimes without realizing.

 

Here is the math:

Atos-Yesterday at 1:00 PM
math for all melee is targetDodgeSkill + (target.dex/2) - attacker.dex/4. My change is to make that targetDodgeSkill + (target.dex/2) - Max(attacker.dex,attacker int)/4 for magic spells only


Atos-Yesterday at 1:07 PM
Previously, dex reduced hit chance BUT due to the math being broken, that didn't really reduce hit chance rendering dex useless for defense..
now fixed

You are right that it does not increase damage by 20, for me it added like 5 on the top end. But that 5 does a lot.

 

Where did @Chris say this?

 

Crit chance i would not expect see increase as it would be insignificant, I think on a tech talk i saw Chris say that crit is

crit percentage (expressed as number ie 50% is 0.5) / 1 + crit percentage.

So a 50% crit chance is 0.5/1.5 so actually a 1 in 3 chance (33%). This gives diminishing returns as if you double your crit chance stat it does not double your chance.
ie
crit chance 100% => 1/1+1 = 1 in 2. Which is not double the 50% crit chance.

I thought i also saw that these values : (target.dex/2) - attacker.dex/4 where actually the square root of those values, again giving diminishing returns.
so for the bit of the term you control assuming you are the target, so defensively
100 dex = 50 square root ~ 7.07
and 200 dex = 100 square root = 10.
Edit i think i was wrong about the square root. So this does scale more linearly. ?I have not not however seen a significant increase in my dodges when using gear to give me 150 dex over 100 dex, certainly not big enough to be worth the extra HP i would get for another 50 Str.

Like i said i have no problem with diminishing returns for things like above, but i think there should be a secondary benefit that does not get hit as hard with diminishing returns to make dex on par with Str and Int.

Also i edited the first post as the example was way off, i was remembering the out of combat regen not in combat regen.


Spung

 

Discord.

 

Figures. It would be nice if he would go back to posting this information in his daily blog thread.

 

Hunting down this information is a pain. You have to find him when he is talkative and then bombard him.

 

I would like DEX affect Sprint power and duration(make it not stackable with dash). Now dex is bad, sprint bad too, you are right.
As archer I gone as high as 240+ Dex(hard to get there you sacrifice many to get it), it was one of the reasons why I left archery, my crit chance was 26% with this dex, in fact pure crit in face was even smaller because some of my shots were not in the face.

 

Happy with any secondary affect that would buff dex to make it a more viable choice against str and int at high levels. The HP regen was just one suggestion.

 

The Devs hate dex. The Devs hate light armor. The Devs hate archery.