Combat and PVP team update!

It does seem that all spells should use reagents. I think it is good also for spells to use reagents. Yet, a mage that has practiced magic all of his/her life might be able to do something without reagents.

Even warriors might be able to do something with a busted item, even if it isn't truly effective in battle. Say a warrior could still have his innate skills like the ability to do a Knights Grace (to stand up quickly when knocked down) even if his armor is thrashed. The armor plates might be hanging by a strap and protecting almost nothing, but his techniques and stance would be the same.

So why can't there be basic spells a person can learn like 0 level spells from D&D. The ability to create a large puff of smoke by using a gesture and a word of power (no reagents)? That way a mage might be able to use that as cover to do something else like slip behind a tree or use an item chaged with teleport spells? Then run like hell.

 

I agree. If a teleportation spell is for high level mages, then it is no longer a "utility spell" it is a wizard spell. Also if it has to do with summoning a party maybe it is a special ritual spell that requires more than one participant. This makes them a specialty spell.


Think of it this way. In world of warcraft could everybody summon party members? If they did have a teleport spell would everybody have access to it or would one character class have that spell and use it for the party?

Even though this is a classless game, some special features should only be available to people who focus on becoming a master of something. If you want teleportation spells to help you and your party, then really focus on magery. If you want to be a jack of all trades, maybe teleports aren't in your grasp.

 

Not exactly what I said. I said crafter and gatherers will be all mages for fast travel, and many of those who are hybrids normally will just forego melee and just do magic, so they can have fast travel. The diehard melee isn't likely to swap, but those on the fence, or those that don't care will have one major reason less to even consider melee.

 

what if it takes a certain level of mage skill to cast from a scroll. Or enough magery to cast that level of scroll.

Many times with scrolls a person might have to be able to read magic to even cast from a scroll. Maybe warriors without magic training shouldn't even be able to use scrolls?

 

I still don't see what it hurts. If the spell is high level and high cost how does it unbalance the game?

 

I don't think they should make scrolls unreadable. Scrolls have already consumed regents, mana and knowledge hence all of the required properties have been transferred to a scroll for non-mages or lower level mages to utilize.

I agree it is important to have convience options be accessible to everyone hence the need of scrolls.

 

Exactly, the argument against the use of regeants for all spells is fixed with the ability to craft spell scrolls. Inscription needs to be apart of crafting.

 

Maybe 'reading' should be a skill. Keep in mind that in the middle ages, the ability to read wasn't commonplace. With reading as a skill everything in game can use runes by default but with a high reading skill they change to easy to read letters. This skill can be used with reading scrolls and other tasks as well.

 

In medieval times, perhaps, but reading is common in Ultima lore. Signs are written, rather than pictures and you find letters, paper, quill and ink in all strata of society.

 

Agreed. And if it's tied to the crafting trees rather than any combat trees, that would negate any concerns about "too many people" taking magic over melee skills. I don't understand that particular objection myself, since Port has said all along they want people to be able to choose hybrid builds, but at any rate a reading skill for scrolls would address that.


As to recall and scrolls in general....
Another objection I've seen, about bots and farmers......, I just don't believe in cutting off your nose to spite your face. There are tons of ways to thwart bots and farmers without having to deny everyone a fun and useful feature.

There are many ways to balance fast travel, many of which have been brought up in this, and other threads. To me fast and efficient travel is a necessity, not a luxury. I remember the early days of EQ where it could take you forever to get anywhere and hated it. I've no idea if they ever changed that..I left shortly after it going live and never looked back. (other reasons too, not just that, but it contributed. lol). Another game I played, it can take you hours to get somewhere. And that's not an exaggeration to make a point. I mean literally hours. All in the name of "realism." That word is starting to give me a rash. Long travel times are very unpleasant and no fun at all.

As for the pvp objections, no problem...same with pve combat. If you're in combat, you can't recall. Simple. In fact most games I know don't allow any kind of fast travel if you're in combat. I don't want this to be another one of those things that every game with pvp ends up doing......nerfing into oblivion, limiting or denying anything fun or interesting to the rest of the game because of pvp "balancing." There are other ways these things can be addressed.

 

Here is where we differ, I do not think convenience should be accessible to everyone. I think there should be some work or effort put into the game. If everything is just given to everyone, in my opinion would be to easy. Non magic users should not be able to use magic. Some magic must be more than one mage can use. There needs to limitations.

 

can you please list some of the ways that you would thwart bots and farmers? WoW could not stop them. UO could not stop them. Very few games can stop them. If systems are implemented that can be exploited, they will be. I can agree with fast travel, but in essence the overhead map is fast travel. It really does not take that long. Its not instant gratification that seems to be the plague of our generation. There is no where in this game, at least so far that takes more than 10 minutes to get to, not hours by any means.

 

Can you define the term "Non-magic users" in context of a classless game? I'm not sure what you mean here.

 

I suppose it would be one that had no skill points put in to magic.

 

I would hazard to guess that such people will be extremely rare. Only the few who cling to pure fighter or pure rogue out of RP concerns. All you have to do is put one point in healing and *boom* you're a magic user. I foresee a lot of that. For Avatars, non-magic users will be the exception, not the rule, in my opinion.

 

Yes you probably are correct. This is a tangent though and not my point at all lol

 

I guess one of my points is that "recall" seems to be taken really lightly. But if you really think about what the spell does, it is one of the most powerful spells there is. Translocation. It should not be easy to cast or used by all, and in my opinion take more than one person to cast.

 

That's an assumption made by your understanding of the physics of a completely made-up system: magic.

For all we know, translocation is super easy by the laws of magic and creating a spark is infinitely difficult (ridiculous example, but you know what I mean).

Basically, Recall is only a powerful spell and difficult to cast, if the lore says so.

 

Yes, I see your point there also, as recall has been established in uo as a easy spell. I, and yes this is my opinion or assumption, that translocation should be really hard, it would take bending time and space in scientific theory to instantly travel from one place to another. Possibly folding time i guess. But thats just the way I see it and I know many people have objections to this, I just wanted to point it out

 

I agree that where there's the tiniest hole, worms will find a way to slither through. Bots and farmers are a fact of life in online games. That still doesn't mean we should cut off our noses to spite our faces. The only way to completely stop them is to have single player offline only, or no fun features at all. Just because I personally don't have the answers is irrelevant and doesn't nullify my point or change my opinion. I've seen many good solutions suggested in various threads on this forum. And by the same token I don't believe that not having any recall or travel scrolls is going to thwart them either.

As for the overhead map, I don't consider that fast travel when you have to keep clicking the map and "run" along a little road (which for me totally takes me out of the feeling of being "in" the world, but that's another topic). And they're talking about encounters on the map and getting sucked into hexes, etc. That's not fast travel by any definition I'm aware of.

And yes, maybe travel by map doesn't take so long right now while we're on a tiny island that is only a fraction the size of the world as it will be eventually. That in itself tells me that we are most certainly going to need some sort of fast travel.

And just as an aside, the bit about instant gratification (a label I don't agree with for fast travel, btw), and the plague of our generation, lol. Since I'm a grandmother of a 21 yr old and a 16 yr old, and I am all in favor of some kind of fast travel, I'd have to say that it's probably less of a generational thing than some people want to think.