Combat and PVP team update!

Chris: if hypothetically, the card combat system turns out to not be very enjoyable to a majority of players.. what is the fall back position? Will it be a standard WoW model of combat? Or is there a plan B for combat?

 

I like the reagents thing. To me it seems reasonable that reagents disappear when the spell is completed, but I can see how that is very debatable. They could very well disappear as soon as you cast.
It seems that a mage should be quite dynamic if used properly. Using combo spells should be lethal considering all the deficiencies a mage has, and not to mention every one of his offensive powers are interruptible. There is no auto attack for spells I'm assuming.


On the non-combat side of magery would there be cantrips, 0-level spells, or a rudimentary spell list that all mages can learn (like teleport home, summon friends, gate, creating a large puff of smoke to be dramatic, and stuff like that?) or will all spells be subject to specifically falling under one of the already specified schools of magic?

 

Chris, I assume the mana use you are talking about for wands and staves are autoattacks? Even if they aren't, why should using a wand or stave require mana? Shouldn't the spell require mana? Otherwise I see mêlée, and possibly archers having a big advantage here. Autoattacks with weapons don't use focus, giving them an advantage to their use. Why should wands and staves, assuming we are talking 'magic' attacks here, require mana to use them. If it is desirable to require them to use mana, which I can understand, then what are the counterpoints for archers or mêlée fighters? Is it accuracy and focus, or should it be something else? Will using a sword versus a mace or axe have different focus requirements? Will using a twohanded weapon impact focus requirements differently than one handed mêlée weapons? Based the wand/stave mana requirement comment it seems that mêlée may have an advantage based on how their weapons work versus wands and staves.

 

Isaiah, I think it would be best if reagents are used up at the end. That way a caster isn't put at a disadvantage if they have to move. Comparing it to an archer, when is an arrow removed from their inventory. Should it be removed from the count when they use the bow, even if it is interrupted? What about mêlée? When should durability be calculated? Should there be some durability taken off each time a weapon is used so that it acts like reagents or arrows?

 

That's a good point. However what would you rather have used, mana or reagents, when the spell is interupted? Personally I think losing a reagent is like losing gold/resources. Losing mana is like losing a tempo, since it can be regained but you are temporarily at a lower casting potential.

If the player has lots of reagents I think the loss of mana is the most hurtful. Unless the person is almost out of reagents, the loss of reagents isn't really felt, but the loss of mana is.

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So there's an issue... People usually complain that mages are too powerful because they can kill a person too fast. However if they don't kill them fast, they may never be able to kill them at all because they have so many drawbacks. Also the wands and staffs a charged with spells, (reagents already used). Would disrupting a charged spell cause the spell to be lost??? That may be worse than losing mana. I would rather lose mana than lose one of 5 charged spells, and I would rather lose a reagent over losing mana.

So I would rate reagents as the lowest value (depending on how easy it is to acquire these), then I would place mana second, then the highest value is the charged spell (that you can't get back until you recharge your item).

 

This is one awesome thread! Thanks Chris!

I really want to put my vote in for making pure casters viable. They need lots of checks and balances, but if wearing no armor and not being very weapons skilled makes a character nigh-worthless, I'll be very disappointed.

As for reagents. I LOVE the idea of being able to cast a weaker version sans reagents. That is awesome and I hope you give it a try. Reagents give a spell a real boost, but a mage is not completely out of luck without them! Great idea.

 

It makes me wonder what kind of buffs you will get from alchemy. If there will stone skin, or some magic armor that a mage might use to increase defenses.

 

Here are somethings I have thought about for this.

• Cost per shot (arrows) Faster attacks == more cost?

All actions should be 1 for 1 arrow.

• Less accurate when moving?

Yes on top of extended cast time and slower running. When walking you're only less accurate but not by much. However the higher your skill the less penitently you take

• Strength less of a factor for damage bonus

It takes Strength to pull back a Bow and Dex to hold back the bow and Strength to reload a crossbow but no Dex to keep it loaded since it locks into place. So Str. and Dex. should play a very small factor in damage, but should play decent factor on accuracy and reload time.

• User's defense reduced while using?

I don't think you need to reduced defense while using them. However maybe up the chance to get hit by a crit and be interrupted if possible. The player is already going to be hindered if movement is slowed while using.

• Allow some mechanism for additional damage for aimed shot? (+time aiming? Skill? )

Yeah. When the skill is used it takes a cast time before it shoots. Or you can even allow a 2nd push of the button to shoot before the max time for a reduced effect based on the % of the time left. So if you have 10% left before your at max then the effect it reduced by 10%

• Weapon not damaged by attack? (balance for ammo?)

No, you should still have damaged done. However extremely reduced vs anything else.

• Additional bonus when used on stationary target?

Agreed!

• High crit chance, armor penetrating?
• Could be made flexible by allowing for different arrow types to give bonuses

This should be based on the Arrow type you use combined with the bow/crossbow you have.

Quiver:
I would like to assume that the quiver will be equitable and used as a container to hold 50 Arrows? You can still hold more in your backpack but you will have to reload your quiver before you can continue to attack. If you run out of arrows in the quiver then one of two things can happen.

1. You will be required to dive into your backpack and drag arrows to the quiver. The qty. amount will auto fill to 50.
2. Your Char will reload the quiver automatically but will require no actions until field before any attacks can be made. You can walk but it will slightly slow the timer down or you can run which will greatly slow the timer down. You cannot run at full speed but you move faster then walking.

Attack/Reload Speed:
Based on Archery Skill/Strength/Endurance(Dex or whatever you use) - Effects all skills and auto-attack. The higher the combination the faster you can shoot.

Skills:
I will leave the use of focus for you to figure out

Ranged Shot: Noble (Volley like in other games but only one arrow is shot)
This give the Archer an advantage to attack before anyone can get close enough. Although not very accurate, it can reduce the targets stats to help out once they get into range. Can be used in or out of combat.

1. Range: This shoots outside your normal range up to a max defined range by the bow (Point and Area). Cannot be used within max point range. (Point target is what is in range before you become inaccurate with that item. Area target is your how far you can shoot the item and just hope you hit something)
2. Targeting: Manual targeting in an area target and the further out your target is the wider the target area is.
3. Ammo used: Only one arrow is shot.
4. Cast Time: None - As fast as you can reload you can shoot but it requires manual targeting.
5. Cool Down: None - As fast as you can reload you can shoot.
6. Abilities: If you have Hit zones. If they are Armored it has to be pierced to take effect otherwise its just normal damage and normal crit chance. If they are not armored then the bonus that followed still apply.
   1. Head: High crit chance and knock back chance
   2. Torso: Medium crit chance with low knock back chance
   3. Arm: Reduced attack speed/damage. (effective if helping out a friend)
   4. Legs: Reduced movement speed
7. Combo: None

Weapon Block: Normal
Uses the Bow/Crossbow to block a strike from a melee weapon. This is best used to block a attack and escape close combat. Must be in combat to use.

1. Range: None - Counter attack skill
2. Targeting: None - Next attack from any enemy in front. At a high skill level chance to block an attack from behind.
3. Ammo used: None
4. Cast Time: None
5. Cool Down: 3 seconds for normal attacks, 5 seconds for skill attacks. To recover from the attack.
6. Abilities/Effects:
   1. This can slow or stop any ranged attacks from the archer.
   2. Extra Damage done to archers weapon.
   3. Full block of any damage from enemy.
7. Combo: After use can use Kick to add knock back to the Kick skill.

Kick: Normal
Interrupt your target.

1. Range: 3 meters
2. Targeting: Selected Target
3. Ammo used: None
4. Cast Time: None
5. Cool Down: 5 Seconds
6. Abilities/Effects:
   1. Interrupts your target for 1 second
   2. Very little damage done
   3. Chance to knock YOU off balance. The higher the skill the less the chance.
      1. Off balance for 1-5 seconds
      2. Your chance to receive a crit hit is increased
      3. Cannot attack
7. Combo: If used with a Counter ability then add knock back chance on the target. Cannot lose balance but may still miss.

This can be good for both PvP and PvE

 

I had an idea regarding reagents and killing things fast, what if reagents could be used to speed up a highly damaging spell instead of making it more powerful. I'm thinking mostly about pvp where you have that mêlée dude running at you. So you want to do big damage by casting a long spell, but reagents makes it a shorter casting time so that you can get a big damage spell out?

 

I wanted to be a mage in this game before I knew the skills. I don't think the casters are bad, it's just that the weapon skills are actually quite interesting it makes it difficult for me to think about being a pure mage.

I think it will be balanced at the end of the day, and if they sell me on the card combat system for spells I may jump back on the mage bandwagon.

Everything looks really balanced at this time, but we haven't seen the mage spell combos yet. If the combos are exceptional, and balanced with the fact that mages wear light armor if any, and they burn reagents etc... Also if pure mages vs warriors comes out about equal in PvP effectiveness, then I would like to choose mage.

However it will be a tough choice because there's some really good warrior skills that look very impressive, and warriors usually require less finesse due to their defensive skills and armor.

 

Love the changes to UI: grayed out while not in range/ cooldown timer animation. Was really looking forward to that.

Another note on the root spell - I notice the root effect is applied immediately to the target, however the player continues to do casting motions. Is this intentional, or should the root only come out at the end of the cast animation?
Follow-up; I usually open with a fireball and then cast root. When I do, the fireball stops in mid-air. Is this part of the 'only one spell can be cast at a time' rule? It seems that since the fireball is already on its way, the root spell shouldn't stop it.


As far as archery goes, I definitely think there should be a movement penalty of some kind.

 

@Isaiah There can be a chance to recover an arrow from a body or the ground. If it pierced the armor then most likely it is lost.

 

A few thoughts based on the gem mines in R7
I apologize in advance if these thoughts have been covered elsewhere, but R7 was my first real introduction to the system

Casters and Reagents
For high level casters, possessing a special artifact like a wand or gem (or a combination of them) could eliminate the need for reagents. For everyone below the top tier, reagents would be needed for maximum effect available at that level but a few special skills like transportation, healing, and possibly invisibility could be available without reagents. To keep the top casters from becoming too powerful, maybe there could be a special gem for each magic type that would need to be equipped for reagent free casting those spells while requiring reagents for other types. Changin gems would be necessary to cast different spells reagent free.

Combat Movement
PVP or PVM, I'm having some real issues with scanning and turning. It may be that I'm simply too new to the interface, but an option for turning without worrying about the elevation would be really nice. Also, the rate of the turn using Q or E is slow so by the time you check for trouble behind you you're a;ready under attack. Maybe adding a SHIFT or CTRL key with Q and E to speed things up would be possible. If possible a look behind you key would be really cool.

 

@Yama

What if there were skills, and items that helped reduce reagent cost in combat? A more efficient caster.

Now here's something too... Chaos magic is unpredictable. Would you rather burn reagents, or be more accurate with chaos magic, if you're a chaos mage?

If you're a chaos mage there already is an inate skill for being more accurate, but if you had the option to be even more accurate would you choose that over reagent efficiency? Maybe there could be a trade off for a type item ability (one or the other), to become more accurate casting or more efficiently use reagents for different types of mage characters?

EDIT: I agree with L.M. Avorin... down below that said he doesn't like 100% LRC suits from UO. Spells should cost something to cast.

 

Ummm, why reduced damage for a moving target? If my arrow hits a target moving or not, it does the same damage in the moment of impact. I bow hunt, its just harder to hit a moving target. When a target is moving the arrow head usually does a LOT more damage than if the target is stationary after the initial impact.

 

I ll be there. Mouahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa................

Dont wanna fight only in a small arena. Give a full PvP Hex for real test plzz.


Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh..............


Cant wait for get Tome Lord Head :-S

 

If your talken about

• Additional bonus when used on stationary target?

It does not say damage. Just bonus. So better accuracy?

 

Just to be clear...I plan on playing a pure caster...robes, no armor, no staff or wand (if possible)...so I'm all about having a fair playing field.

My feeling is that as a mage I should be able to "come prepared" but have major weaknesses that if exposed will lead me to seek a backup plan (like running, sneaking or teleporting away to plan another day). This is often not how players think of mages...they usually want tanks that fire max DPS. I think the more balanced version is what I'm talking about - you have a plan and if nothing makes you deviate from that plan you're going to kick ass. But if someone happens that makes you change things up...look out!

 

• Spells with reagents just can't be cast without reagents or is there just a much weaker version of the spell for casting with out reagents?

makes sense actually.

Maybe the mage could choose his "type of deficiency" when casting without reagents. Like a mage chooses schools of magic, maybe apart from just skills, the mage can choose what he/she is able to cast weaker versions of when selecting his skills (if anything).

So then maybe he can cast weak versions of combat spells, and nothing else. Then again another person might want to cast weak versions of spells that could be used to try to flea combat. something like that?