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COTO for item repair = economic fail. Solution included.

Discussion in 'Release 32 Feedback Forum' started by Anvar, Aug 15, 2016.

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  1. Anvar

    Anvar Avatar

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    Gold crowns have flooded the market since persistence and I imagine as long as the game is popular will continue to do so as its an easy way for people to buy some fast gold.
    This however, coupled with tying their value to 1 weeks of row house rent sets a maximum value of 3500, so theyll always be relatively cheap.

    Anyone can buy a ton of these and never have to replace expensive crafted goods hence reducing the need for crafters and gatherers and only increasing gold farming and real money purchases.

    The solution is fairly simple either

    a) Remove COTO from being able to repair the item so items cannot be repaired.

    b) Keep COTO as being able to repair MOST of the damage but multiples would be needed for a full 100 repair , and have it based on the now useless repair skill. and each crown used lowers max durability forever by 1.

    c) Do nothing and watch the economic disaster unfold.

    ie. At 0 repair skill a crown will repair 20-25% max durability so 4-5 crowns will be needed for a full repair, also lowering max by 4-5 points so over time new gear will still be required.
    At 100/200 repair (whatever max is) a crown will repair 50-100% durability (maybe more) so 1-2 crowns would be needed and hence with a skilled repairer it would only lose 1-2 points.

    Obviously tweak the numbers to get something that keeps a stable economy, but this will mean that someone needs to either get a blacksmith/carpenter/tailor to repair an item for them, who could then charge for the service and build a reputation (good or bad) like has happened in a certain other MMO from the past ;)

    Personaly Id pick option b, but maybe thats just me. Ofc if you already have a better solution planned....
    if you do please let us know :)

    @DarkStarr
    @Berek
     
  2. Nolove 0369

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    Option A 100%
    Coto's are great I love then for gathering, there great to pay rent with, but they simply do not belong in the repair side of things.
     
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  3. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    Before COTOs were introduced, we already had the case where the equipment last forever due to the ability to repair them indefinitely. Taking COTOs out of equation would just be going back there, no?
     
  4. Barugon

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    It seems to me that the economy is humming along nicely so far. At any rate, I think your predictions of doom are a bit premature.
     
  5. Anvar

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    No, as before we could repair items indefinately with repair kits which was just wrong, and there were many crafters pointing this out at the time.
    Now if you took COTO out of the repair loop the item would just be broken, Im not suggesting replacing them with another way of repairing max durability but having no way to do so.

    Yup, for sure, things are buying and selling to a point, and yeah agreed it was a bit of an over-exaggerated statement, Im sure it wont be overall economic failure, theres more to craft than weapons and armour,
    Im just pointing out the obvious , to me and many others whove questioned the idea before, that with the current mechanic items are still effectively indestructible and that unless its to buy a better piece of
    armour or weapon the fact that noones going to spend 5/10/20k or more on a replacement, let alone the time to shop for it if they can just repair the item for 1k, or 2k or any value less than what the item costs.

    This ofc will have a knock-on effect on the resources market and youll see the value of ores and other raw materials either drop in value or cease to be traded in any volume as who will go gathering if theres no money
    to be made there .

    This ofc all depends on the overall flow of COTO into the game, but ill repeat, if it only costs 85c - 1$ or 1-5k to repair an item that costs 5-20k or more to make/replace who exactly isnt going to use a Crown ?
     
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  6. Weins201

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    insert dead horse here . . . .

    Been Coverd not gonna happen CotO are here to stay and so is the mechanic

    TY for bringing it back up again
     
  7. Anvar

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    Also I had another idea for a mechanic on repairs :

    c) The lower the Max durability is when the repair is attempted the higher the chance of breakage is, modified down by the repairers repair skill level ofc.
    ie use a crown when its durability is 90+ and 0 chance to break, get down to say 50 durability and its chance to break could be 5-10% etc.

    It could also be done that in the case of an item breaking when repaired that the crown is not consumed.
     
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  8. Anvar

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    YW, but dead horses need a whipping every now and then, and Im sure it just twitched ;)

    And Im giving them a get out clause, or 2 , so Coto are here to say and so is the mechanic, just the long term economic balance could be helped with some simple tweaks to the current system.
     
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  9. WrathPhoenix

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    I have to agree with this topic. Now that pledge items do not lose maximum durability I think that the removal of COTO's as a means to repair maximum durability is a necessity to keep the economy flowing. We need COTO's to instead be used for things like purchasing decorations like we have now or other special items like the potions. Im A-OK with them paying rent, but allowing them to repair in their current form is just too much because by allowing them to be used for paying rent it sets a precedent that will keep COTO's at a low price tier and make repairing gear entirely too cheap. I hope @Chris reconsiders this.
     
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  10. Rofo

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    I think you have bigger problems than CotO repair.
    Crafted weapons have value beyound founder or merchant weapons, just from the base crafting crit chance.

    But Crafted armor, doesn't offer much until you get to the very top end pieces.
    Base Crafted heavy armor doesn't really have any major benefit over Founder and vendor Armor I can tell.
    I was looking to upgrade, and best I can tell my founder plate is almost Identical to Iron Epic Platemail, minus the bonus that comes from the strap.

    I could pickup some Item Durability effectiveness with Meteroic Iron but why give up my perma max durability for a peice that will wear out eventually.
    I could pick up a minor buff to weapon damage with Copper, or bronze,
    Sure I could get it enchanted, or masterworked but +2 Str isn't really going to make much of difference compared to the 52 base I already have.

    It looks to me the only way to actually get a real upgrade, if the entire suit was exceptional, and alloy, and masterworked/enchanted at least 1 time with a good enchant.
    Such a suit helm, chest, legs, gloves, boots, cloak, would run somewhere between 0.5 million and 1.5 million gold, and would take me weeks to get enough mats to make the whole suit as exceptional.

    Effectively killing the crafted Armor market until after inflation kicks in and we are all swimming in gold.
     
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  11. Anvar

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    Ive only just started doing any enchanting and Mastercrafting but from what Ive seen you can get +4 str for example with 1 enchant on an item, not sure if thats limited to chest/ 2handed as thats what I got it on.
    Even if thats the case, then thats +16str just from the 1st level of enchant, then you can mastercraft it too, and if you get higher skills you can put multiple levels and socket the items etc. Also your forgetting the
    bonuses from the base materials ie crit chance from copper/ bronze, spell crit from constantan etc.

    It doesnt cost millions, only 5gold ingots per atempt and the cost of the item on breaking
     
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  12. Rofo

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    First off if the piece isn't exceptional, it's practice Enchanting, or Masterwork scrap piece and not a piece that should be bought exccept at barging basement prices.
    Secondly for every magical 1 that you get perfect for 5 gold ingots (20 gold ore) there are are ton of trash enchants/destroyed pieces/ and non-exceptionals that come before it and after it,

    So if your selling Exceptional +4 or better peices with perfect enchants on them for less than 100k, your basically donating money to someone else, because you've got a ton of failures to pay for out of your pocket.

    Thirdly, what armor piece is made from copper that gives crit chance?
    Cause I see no issue with Weapons having value as crafted, but I'm having trouble finding +Crit chance on armor, which would make it valuable to me.
     
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  13. Poor game design

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    Yet there are only two gold crowns on the public vendor in Owl's Head for sale and none in Central Brittany.

    Please get your facts straight. This is an ever changing economy. Gold Crowns haven't "Flooded the market".

    The most important thing to remember about them is that they can only be used once. ;)
     
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  14. Anvar

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    Just because you wait 1-2 weeks till a moment when theres only 2 and saying nothing to see here. Im doing rather well out of it myself, if people gonna keep selling them for 1k then your gonna find the vendors been emptied by
    people like me and well have no need to buy a replacement weapon for another year thanks :)

    I know that things can easily change and noone is buying them, but Ive yet to see an mmo where people dont buy gold, often illegaly, thankfully here that should be relatively controlled by the mechanic that players have of purchasing coto`s and selling them. However people will always want to get ingame gold so they will buy them for 1$ or 85c in bulk and sell them for gold, hence they will always be available at a price far lower than the cost of a single weapon, and Im talking mat cost without enchanting.

    Dont misunderstand me, cotos are a good thing for the game ie a form of revenue and something to trade and aquire, the market will dictate the price which is good, just the ingame effect of them being able to restore 100/100 durability with no loss ever is too powerful, that is all.
     
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  15. DancingShade

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    Last time I came across a bunch of cotos for sale in Central Brittany I bought the lot of them.

    I highly encourage people to keep listing them for crazy low amounts of gold! I appreciate a bargain :)
     
  16. Poor game design

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    I don't think that's true. What happens when the cost of a COTO goes up? What happens when today's 1k becomes 5k, 10k or 100k per COTO? I don't think "always" is the proper way to look at that. The supply of COTO's is not infinite. The price is tied directly to the popularity of the game, and the ability for players to buy things of value with them. But since it's destroyed on use, it's hard for me to see how this would ever translate into a situation where we had too many of them.

    I almost agree with you, but for the destruction of the COTO. Yes, someone can pay as little as .85 on the dollar to repair the max duration. But what if the devs change that to require 2 COTO's, 3, 5? They could justifiably do that if the economy required it.

    And every person has a limit to how many COTO's they will buy out of game. At some point even the richest of the rich here will say "I just can't buy another one of these things." I think on a macro level this isn't a problem that the devs can handle. On a micro level, yes you'll have some people (like me) that do not replace weapons or armor regularly because they have lots of COTO's.
     
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  17. Anvar

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    And when I can make 50k an hour how much is an hours worth of ore going to be worth? , thats right, its just called inflation. Time is money and all that, and Ive got over 40 cotos now all from ingame purchases, many mates also been collecting them
    amongst many other bargains. :)

    And as for the destruction of the Coto that isnt a requirement , the Coto can be looked at as a fee for the items succesful repair, if the item is destroyed the Coto that would have been consumed in the process arent, then its just the case of the item
    breaking.
     
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  18. Poor game design

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    Yes, time is money and that's called inflation, no doubt. But you seem to be thinking that your COTO's and your mate's COTO's and my COTO's are going to negatively impact the economy. I don't understand that conclusion.

    Yes, you can hold on to them as they don't expire. But once you use them they're gone forever. You have to buy more. There's an inherent balance to this.

    You can't repair your item AND save your COTO. And if you're worried about people repairing items you can't also be worried about them saving COTO's because you can't do both at the same time. If a COTO is saved it can't be simultaneously keeping an item at max durability.

    I agree with you that it's a powerful tool, allowing players to use real money to buy COTO's and use COTO's to repair items. But I don't see it as a problem because the COTO is destroyed after one use. Since we both agree that TIME = MONEY, the economy is not impacted by this in a negative way. As inflation occurs, the amount of TIME will be balanced with the amount of MONEY because of supply and demand. That's on a macro level. On a micro level, you and your mates might have 40 COTO's that you bought for approximately 40k in gold. Well done, I agree that's pretty good.

    Where as I bought over 400 COTO's for approximately 800 gold per COTO. Even better! It doesn't ruin the economy or make it harder on craters though. It just means you and your mates and I have benefited more than other people. That's what happens in a player driven economy, there are winners and their are losers, by design.
     
  19. Anvar

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    Nice job on the cotos ;) and your right that doesnt ruin the economy. its the almost certain fact that theyll continue to be on sale, maybe at 1k, maybe at 10k, buy they will still be 10x cheaper than the cost of the item your going to be repairing,
    at the least that item needs to lose a bit of durability off the top end, 1-2 points per Full repair. When youve got items with 200 dur then they could be repaired hundreds of times before even needing a coto to repair them, with cotos as is it
    just makes the item effectivel indestructible and there will never be a need to replace it, just upgrade and this would be a shame.
     
  20. Gatsu.

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    What? i've an AXE paid 1500 gp... (death attunement)
    i need to use a COTO (1600 gP?) to fix the weapon?

    everyone say me: buy another one...

    WHERE? where are these low-cost (+1 or +2 or +3) AXES??? bludgeon users don't have weapons.. crafters don't make BLUDGEONS....
    i have to STEAL double AXE (value 0) from vendors benchs to have a full repaired axe...

    Crafters must be able to REPAIR these CRAFTED items, i can pay maximum 700/800 gp for my axe (7 repair kits, like older releases before cotos)

    cotos not exist on real life.. on real life there is an HAMMER and an ANVIL.... NO COTOS.
     
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