Decay – Perception vs. Reality and a Recommendation

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bayard, Sep 20, 2018.

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  1. Bayard

    Bayard Avatar

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    BLUF – I think loss of XP on death is one of the primary reasons our player population isn’t higher.

    Problem - The perception is that every time you die, you suffer a punishing loss of experience and skills that take a long time to recover from. The reality depends on your skill level/specialization but many players either don’t stick around long enough to learn that or don’t even bother to play because of what they hear or read.

    Discussion - I’ve learned over the years that perception is reality. So we have a perception problem with decay and the best way to fix it is to eliminate the loss of XP on death.

    I think there should be a penalty for death, but it shouldn't take away people’s time. Time cannot be recovered like XP, gold or equipment and the casual/older players know this better than anyone.

    And the use of decay to slow player progression isn’t necessary. You already have a system that allows the freedom of progression while ensuring the cost in time and effort to reach level 200 is almost impossible to achieve! I think that’s one of SotA’s strengths, not a weakness.

    Recommendation – Instead of losing XP on death, make equipment take a huge hit to durability. This will boost the value of repair kits/essences, invigorate the crafting marketplace and provide a significant gold sink as more COTOs are used for repair. It also makes sense if you took enough damage to kill you, then your equipment would be in really bad shape too.

    Cheers,
    JkB

    Edit: I just read another forum post with some good ideas and there are some good ideas here as well. I'm open to anything that helps fix our perception problem. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  2. Toadster

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    Are you not just trading one time sink for another? And honestly it is easier to get exp than it is to get the gold or resources to replace armor. So, I do agree the exp death penalty needs to be removed I also believe that the penalty should in no way prevent continued play for lengthy periods of time. This seems like the change we would get is in the words used for people not playing. Instead of :

    “damn I have to grind my exp pool back up so I can not go out and adventure tonight...”

    Would be...

    “It will be sorry I need to grind more gold and mine 5000 silver or so I can replace my suite before I go out and have fun, in a place we might die....”
     
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  3. Aldo

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    While I agree that decay is a nasty thing, I think damage to equipment is just as nasty if not more so. I suggest that the penalty not negate player progression at all be it experience points or crafting/shopping time. My suggestion for the death penalty is that the recently departed get resurrection back to their bind point. This inconvenience would be frustrating (which is the point) yet not take something away from the player.
     
  4. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Decay is on the way out as per dev response. Its no longer a reason for concern
     
  5. Vero

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    Dev's said they are thinking about what to change the current decay into right ;) can't hurt to brainstorm about it if there is no 'new decay' set in stone
     
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  6. Chatele

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    This is why I left UO …. got too frustrating for me, I hated it, i'd rather have decay instead of that... I like what other games I played did, you got a temporary debuff on like dex, str or intel, or some skill, it was on a timer due to death, you could still play, grind or what ever, and just wait out the debuffs at your own risk :) .
     
  7. Fruck

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    I am torn on decay, to me it equals time - which is the most valuable resource in the universe. So when I die I lose 30min to an hour of the time I put in to my character. That said I think having some consequence to death is not a bad idea...
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  8. Tila Tenderfoot

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    I hate hate wasting time, so loss of xp is bad. Some debuffs to core stats seem reasonable, at least they make it inconvenient enough for a player and maybe force them to switch up the gear a bit. In fact, I will totally make a death debuff deck with relevant gear. ;)
     
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  9. SteelCore

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    For players with adventurer Level 100+ i would like to see a debuff like -20 str, dex, int, -20 to all skills and -50% Xp for 30 minutes. Thats enough to feel it if you died because of a mistake.
    And to prevent boss farming -50 str, dex, int, -50 to all skills and -100% XP for a full hour if you die again within the first 30 minutes death debuff timer.
     
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  10. Floors

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    Why ? What is the point ? All it does is discourage people from playing. Should we REALLY be doing that ?
     
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  11. Tila Tenderfoot

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    I though boss farming was a fun activity for endgame players. Why -50? To paralyze the game play? Seems harsh.
     
  12. Vero

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    Spot on. If we are punished with 'sit-out the next hour' cus our stats/skills/gains are halted to hard, people will logoff for an hour- or go do something else
     
  13. Brewton

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    That's what attenuation currently does. Making you wait it out for 30mins, which means you better not accidentally hit another mob by accident or you'll have to wait longer. :(
     
  14. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

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    take a small fraction (1/32, etc) of the damage from the death blow and spread it across your armor as durability hit. debuff health and focus the same way for 10 minutes. if you're naked or a bit of armor has zero durability, the damage the armor would have taken falls though to the debuff calculation.

    i think that is reasonable enough to not cause an issue for a single death. but, give enough disincentive to not die over and over.
     
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  15. SteelCore

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    Thats why i said "something like...".
    I just dont want XP decay as punishment. My already invested time should be untouchable.
    A temporary slower XP gaining rate would not stop me from playing, then its just 75k XP instead of 150k, or if you grind just 500k instead of 1m.
     
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  16. Fruck

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    Attenuation doesnt stop you from doing other things for the rest of the hour, that stat loss certainly would.
     
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  17. Cordelayne

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    @Bayard I actually like this idea, to some extent, if it is totally neccessary that death have such punitive punishment. From an immersion and common sense perspective it makes...well, sense. ;)

    If they were to go this route the only suggestion I would make is to not make it as damaging to your equipment as you illustrate. As @Toadster indicated in his post, I believe this just sacrifices one time sink to another. So yeah, equipment takes a hit but it's capped up to certain percentage.

    Personally, I think a simple timed, cumulative, stat debuff that gets capped after three deaths is a better way to go. First death, your stats go down 5% for five minutes. Second death it goes up to 10% for seven minutes. Third death and it's now a 15% debuff for a total of ten minutes! Any more deaths after the third and during this time frame do nothing.

    Also, to be clear, the penalty is only cumulative if you die while still under a previous penalty. So if you died once, but survived the initial five minutes without dying a second time, it would reset things to the beginning.

    The reason I personally prefer a system like this is that it still penalizes the player upon a death, but isn't so taxing. Even with a 15% debuff to all stats a player could still play the game and not feel like they lost any progress. As folks have been saying, time is so very precious so let's not implement systems that waste it and hinder our progress. This a game people! Make it fun, I don't want or need it to be so immersive or punishing that it feels like work! :D
     
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  18. Cordelayne

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    I disagree. The two times I have become attenuated I logged off immediately and I know others do as well.

    While I agree with @SteelCore on the stat debuff idea, I do think his example is excessive and as you pointed out would stop people from playing. Any debuff needs to be punishing but not so much so that it inhibits people's desire to play. Just my thoughts.
     
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  19. Fruck

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    Everyone I play with doesnt log off after attune - so I suppose its a difference of perspective.
    As I mentioned, I think there should be something that happens on death, but it cant be so prohibitive it will prevent people from harder content.
     
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  20. Cordelayne

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    I apologize Fruck, I should have been clearer. I didn't mean to intimate that my experience with attenuation was the norm. It probably isn't. Like all things it's a confluence of both types of players. I simply meant to elucidate that there are folks out there that do stop playing once that metric is hit. Or if you're @EclipseMaiden you go deco ;)

    Regardless, I am in complete agreement that death needs a penalty, just one that allows the adventure to continue without being excessive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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