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Depth of Field (Blur) seems off

Discussion in 'Release 31 Feedback Forum' started by Wintermute of CoF, Jun 30, 2016.

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  1. Gix

    Gix Avatar

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    While I agree with that sentiment, adding a toggle is just one more thing to test and debug. It's not a big deal but it does add up.

    This is a common theme among some folks in the forums for a wide variety of subjects: "I can't possibly imagine why it's there, therefore it's bad and should be completely removed."

    That kind of thinking stunts progress.

    If you see something you don't like, by all means, share it; I won't be stopping you.

    "Blurr sucks and here's why!"

    Just because you wrote a disclaimer, though, it doesn't magically make your comment any less frustrating to read and I took the time to explain why.

    Such is the cost of allowing players to try out the game is such an early state. The whole idea of putting this on Steam, for example, was a mistake. Most companies just put monthly videos (at best) describing their progress. Release a new game-play videos, screenshots, etc. Somehow, allowing the public to play your WIP suddenly makes it a scandal because the public expect quality content. Hindsight is 20/20.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
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  2. agra

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    Those semantics are lost on the general public, and anyone not posting/reading daily on these forums, in my opinion. Semantics aside, imo, they have a dev/test/QA server, and they have a live/production server, and they have had both of these for well over a year.
    Sticking to those semantics will not change the opinions of the larger target demographic, nor those offering reviews, after July 28th.
    PFO tried this same 'jedi mind trick' tactic starting in January 2015, and ultimately failing in August 2015. They said "It's not launched! It's early access!". It did not go well for them, and it's not going to go well for Portalarium, if they follow the same path.
     
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  3. Lumajo

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    @ Berek. Just revert the change please, nobody asked for this blur and nobody wants it. Thankyou.
     
  4. Time Lord

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    Yes, it is a common response on some issues. I just wish it didn't apply to this issue. I guess I'm going to keep struggling with the question of "why we need it" :confused:?'

    In 2014 we had 30,000 backers, now 2 years later we have 60,000 backers and we need 40,000 more. When something is so vividly in a players view, "whatever development direction" this is headed, needs be become resolved quickly for it's hoped better value for our content. I just can't think of anything better or how it does better anything within our content. Weighing the effect on my scale may differ than others of what the effect is achieving. Unlike some issues, this issue is unique, because with other issues we can base a judgment on how many are using it or opting out of it. It's just my view and many others, that we need an "opt in or out" option, because only then can such a value become quantified for it's value of being there.
    I am certainly happy that they're testing this before final wipe, because it seems unpopular here in the forums. Unlike a new pair of sight corrective glasses, the brain will not adjust to this which is it's natural function for our sight, thus our brains will be distracted attempting to adapt. Our natural sight adaptation being just not possible, this leaves any illusion on the screen representing depth of field quite lacking in mimicking real life.

    [​IMG]

    Not that I don't agree with you Gix, I think you're quite correct... but I will place a pun in here >>>---> It's not hind sight that's 20/20 in this case, "it's near sightedness that's 20/20, leaving any farsightedness here legally blind" :cool:
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
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  5. Gix

    Gix Avatar

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    Because, when done properly, it does three things:
    1. The overall image is less noisy/distracting to the eyes.
    2. Gives a greater sense of scale and depth to every object in the scene.
    3. Can make screenshots look prettier.
    IE: a mug takes the entirety of your screen, depending on how it's blurred, you'll have an easier time determining if it's a giant mug or a regular sized mug that's simply closer to the camera. This works in conjunction with Shadows and SSAO but, if you had to turn features off for performance reasons, blur is the least demanding of them all.
     
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  6. Gideon Thrax

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    For the players with multi-monitor configurations or larger 21:9 screens - the overall image is quite distracting. Imagine how you'd feel in an IMAX theater where only the very center of the screen was in focus.

    That's a layman's way to describe it - but you see where I'm going with it. In still photography, blur makes sense for many artistic reasons... it can be used to portray movement and there is painstaking consideration given to the circle of confusion for the sake of presentation. For motion picture however, when adventuring or fighting or just scoping out the terrain - it's a distraction.

    For me, less blur is better... if DoF could be implemented on a slider or optional, that'd be choice.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
  7. Gix

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    @Duke Avery "when done properly". Also (and to everyone else), don't get me wrong, the blurr right now is totally messed up.

    What I'm trying to convey is that there's a difference between saying:
    "Hey! It's distracting! Please fix it and give us the option to turn it off"
    and
    "Yo! Why are you even attempting this? Who told you you could do this? We don't want it!"
     
  8. Gideon Thrax

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    I'm trackin. :)
     
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  9. agra

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    Thanks for the opinion, your three points have never been true for me, from my narrow selfish biased perspective.

    For me, and this is the same for all post processing effects including any kind of Blur, Depth of Field, HDR, Bloom, Glow, Anti-aliasing, or any of that 'stuff'...?
    First thing I do in any game I play is turn all that off. I hate it. I will never like it. My eyes are not a movie camera. My game is not a Vaseline-on-the-lens 1960's dreamscape.
    I have no interest in any "visual effect" that reduces the clarity of the game I'm playing. To me, that's all any of those visual effects do, is reduce clarity.
    Unless I can grow a new set of eyeballs that see differently than my current ones, I can't conceive of a future where I will change my opinion on this.

    Just let me turn them all off, optionally, and I'll die a happy man.
     
  10. devourerofmemes

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    I can understand turning off others for personal preference, but why would you ever want to turn off anti-aliasing? Unless of course your computer can't run it at 60fps.
     
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  11. Selene

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    We.. actually agree on something. :eek:

    :D (I'll try not to get used to it)
     
  12. Time Lord

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    Anti-aliasing o_O I'm so glad you said something about this :) I had to Google that stuff to see what it was :D Thanks @devourerofmemes !

    Figure A... [​IMG] Figure B... [​IMG]

    I'm getting educated here... There seems a right way and a wrong way when it's applied? o_O I like the graphic of it's effect in figure A, but what happened in B? When it's blown up it doesn't do a good job, or what?
    :) Thanks for any further comment on this...
    ~Time Lord~The Computer Illiterate~:(
     
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  13. devourerofmemes

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    It's not so much that it doesn't do a good job, but it's going to look much better as you increase bits. Figure B is both an extremely low bit image and where the technique is applied it's not done well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
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  14. Gix

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    You don't like it... so the devs shouldn't work on the things that others would like to have?

    ... so let the devs work on those features.

    SSAO is a visual effect that has NOTHING to do with simulating a camera. Do you turn that off too?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    You turn off HDR? Why? That allows you to SEE MORE and it actually does the opposite of what a camera does. A camera takes light at a fraction of a second and puts it on "film" (or whatever medium it saves on) directly. Meaning, if you take a picture with both bright and dark areas, you'll never be able to see proper details in both simultaneously. HDR actually allows you to see dark areas more clearly (not see completely black areas) while at the same time allows you to see bright areas clearly (not see completely white areas).

    ... because your eyes would normally have that information. Without HDR, its stuck with whatever the camera renders.
    [​IMG]
    (post-processing step varies by artist as it's manually calibrated)

    There are different types of AA, some people prefer particular ones over others.

    A higher resolution means a cleaner image with less jagged pixelated edges. Some people CANNOT play without it as having no AA creates a flickering effect (especially with motion on fine objects like grass)... something that @Chris in this thread tried to illustrate (with the ship's ropes).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Let me guess... some of you turn V-Sync off for the extra frame-rate. And I bet some of you do it without knowing what it actually does, right?

    Whenever you rapidly move around your camera, V-Sync saves you from this:
    [​IMG]
    (and it also has the side effect of preventing your laptop from overheating as V-Sync typically /although not always/ locks your frame-rate at 30fps... and doing any more generates more heat)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
  15. Wintermute of CoF

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    There's a range in which it looks good, once you get up over 300DPI it tends to be unnecessary. However AA is a feature to overcome the limitations of rendering technology rather than to simulate a camera so I usually keep it on unless there's a performance impact or (in some games) it makes the UI hard to read. I turn off motion blurs and lens flares and depth of field.

    I have that enabled on my phone camera, looks great as long as I remember to hold the phone still while it does its thing. Thanks for a very informative post BTW ;)

    I turn off V-sync because I have the framerate locked at the X server level with the ForceFullCompositionPipeline = On option for the Nvidia drivers, I assume it's possible to do a similar thing on Windows. Before I did that I got tearing like you illustrated in many games.

    So, we are veering off topic again, I know I'm partly to blame for that, but some of the topics we're veering on to are also interesting and could maybe have their own threads if we lock this one? @Berek ?

    Seems we have at least these conversations going on:
    • The DoF stuff looks like crap in R31 (original thread subject, I think we've covered it)
    • Port should consider that as well as being players we are also testers and, if they want us to test new content they should try and make any roadblocks to us getting at that content things that can be turned off (deserves a feedback thread of its own I think, there may already be one)
    • Final wipe is a big deal and will bring in an influx of new users whether it counts as a release or not, dealing with them purely through managing expectations will not be successful (I think there's several other threads on this already, no need to cover it here)
    • Post-processing effects in general, what they're for, how they work and personal preferences regarding them (possibly belongs here)
     
  16. Gix

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  17. Joe Zhudarak

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    Depth in field is not working here, some friends have the same issue, i have enable/disable this function but nothing change.... is a Nvidia panel configuration ? Graphic card driver ? corrupted sota file ? Do you have the same problem ?


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
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