EMBRACE PvP Content, what do we have to lose?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jackrabbit, Apr 27, 2020.

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  1. Boris Mondragon

    Boris Mondragon Avatar

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    Brother ; Throw out some suggestions to see if the devs listen. I am sure they are done with taming and bards after the next release so maybe it’s time to press them for PvP before crafting changes take their full attention. R/Boris
     
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  2. Prada

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    Cross my heart, hope to die, why not give PVP a try...
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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  3. Dhanas

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    In my opinion, right now the queue system alone doesn't solve the problem, too many PvP players left the game already and lost their hope, hard they come back for just a queue system that will be abandoned after a couple of days. What we need is devs focusing on PVP contents for a couple of months, reworking it, like they did with other system like fishing, agriculture, Pve experience and crafting.
    What I would love to see them working on is:
    - factions and castle sieges related to factions,
    - boost world PVP experience, making PVP zone worthy and fixing all the bugs and bad mechanics related to it
    - rework of guild wars, fixing all the bugs related to it and adding some good rewards and good mechanic ( this would surely keep player busy for a long time if they work well)
    - working on arenas/battleground with queue system, we already have obisdian trial, just use some already existent maps, copy it in a new zone, remove the mob and you have a pvp arena. ( ex. take the courtyard of LB's castle in CB, create a new map with just it and make it joinable with a queue).

    Said that, don't forget that first step to fix pvp is listening to players that do it often and fix all the bug PVP related reported from them ( No, i am not talking about combat nerfs). As example, if they don't fix the party system that allow you to unflag if you join a group of someone else keeping the benefit of being flagged without being attackable, or making ppl able to unflag during a guild war, even with all the job done, PVP will still be a unplayable.
     
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  4. Antrax Artek

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    I really can't explain why a fundamental concept like PVP in a rpg sandbox online game, but above all that was promised in the original concept of the game, has been completely sunk and ignored for years.
    The PVP is able to offer endless contents and hours of play if well designed at the base.
    It's not that difficult to give atleast a little sense to PVP, just get rid of PVP flag releated exploits and make sense of the PVP zones so that the PVPers themselves stop preferring private grinding over them.
    Then the bigger the rewards of the PVP zones, the more people will be needed to fight rivals and get rewards / loots / XP.
    Add stake/wager option on the guild war declaration window and finally even guild wars will make sense if the flagging system is fixed.

    I wonder when @Chris will finally give some attention to PVP.
    Is is not needed a game rework but just few selected changes.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  5. Loki the Cat

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    I have done zero PVP in this game and have zero desire to do PVP as I enjoy co-op PVE.
    That said I'm fine with there being PVP as long as I don't have to take part.
    From my non PVP standpoint what I see is a bunch of areas that I can't go into already as they are forced PVP and some of them are quest areas. Also having to constantly worry about walking into or scrolling to some random town that went PVP is a pain.
    PVP for me would be stupid as there is no chance in hell of me doing anything but dying against a server of big spending long time super players and no way to get the gold to ransom with out real world cash backing it.
    While a 50k ransom sounds like nothing at all to some to me a single ransom that size would break me and 2 would be impossible.
     
  6. Violet Ronso

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    a 50k ransom must be a VERY special item, as I have never seen that, most ransoms I've gotten against guildmates were about 250-2500 gold.

    There is no zone that you HAVE to go to that is PVP. Most of the ruins that you have seen are simply a shortcut to another zone, which you can access from various underground dungeons. PVP towns are usually guild specific towns, and you should have no reason to go into that town other than to visit it or someone. Merchant towns are non-PVP for that specific reason, to allow everyone to go into them.

    As for the towns, you see right by the "enter town" button that it is a PVP town if it is, and No-Ransom PVP towns allow you to die at no cost (might be a nice place to practice if you ever decide to try it). So no, there is nothing that forces you to PVP in this game, nothing at all.
     
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  7. Loki the Cat

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    Ah I had though all the shardfalls and adventure towns were forced pvp and could have sworn a few patches ago the MOD said ransoms were turned back on.
    As to the 50k I was repeating what I saw in This thread and 1 other as it's the only info I have seen on ransom amounts and it sounded just bonkers to me glad to know there is a reasonable gold amount on stuff as 2500 I could afford a few times =)
     
  8. Violet Ronso

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    NPC towns are all Non-PVP (except if Blood Bay is considered an NPC town).
    All Shardfalls are PVP, but you do not need to visit them, ever. Even for the main quest, there are alternate routes to reach the actual quest Item you are looking for, going through the ruins and shardfalls is simply a shortcut.
    Ransoms are back on, yes, but Player Owned Towns can be set to no-ransom, even if the game has ransom on its own.
     
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  9. Abstrax Phoenix

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    Yes, more rewards for pvp would drive the economy up a bunch. You know, if a bunch of pvpers came back, they would need top tier gear. Who would they be buying that stuff from? Where would they be getting the gold from? Think about it. Also, there have been countless amounts of players leaving because of the small pvp community, lack of rewards in pvp, and people criticizing pvpers left and right for 0 reason. Just because someone doesnt like everything you like doesnt make them evil. You know, the fishers wouldnt want to play this game much if I went around calling all of the fishers lazy because they click 2 buttons and do nothing for the game, just fishing, and how fishing is useless. You wouldnt want to play this game if players were messaging you every day, trolling you every day about how bad of a human you are because you like something they dont. You have no idea how many people do that. and then theres the people who complain about pvp, and then even talk about balance of pvp, its such a mess. and the fact that the devs were listening to all of these people who pvp once, die, and then complain on forums was ridiculous. please, add something meaningful to pvp, dont listen to people who dont pvp for balance. You dont even have to add that much, just add a pvp queue, add some stuff to earn in pvp zones, replace the ransom system with a point system, this ransom system is garbage. add those few things, and please, for the love of god, please please please please please fix performance and crashing. There are like 5 zones right now that I cant go in right now because I crash the very second I even try to enter them, not to mention that I have to run this game on lowest settings possible to even get a solid 60 fps everywhere, whilst I can play any other game I want on my pc with max graphics, and get 240 fps. Give pvpers a reason to pvp, give the 50-100 pvpers that I know that left because of trolls or no reason to pvp a reason to actually come back and play this game.
     
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  10. Loki the Cat

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    This will sound a bit off at first and its long
    I would suggest reading all of it or none of it.

    I think PVP hate comes from every other RPG co-op being pressured into PVP when almost every game on the planet is already PVP.

    To us dedicated PVE co-op types who have watched most of our games get taken over I think there is a general confusion as to why the FPS shooter dynamic has taken over something that was built on co-op, complex group strategy, and puzzle solving and had it replaced by trash talking bloodthirsty uber murder junkies.

    This is not my view of PVP players as a whole nor am I claiming it's the whole story it is merely a colorful slightly over the top way to provide the other view point.

    Also PVE players work hard on PVE tactics and equipment which is useless in PVP most times as PVP takes alot of completely different prep work. The general fear among PVE is that once started PVP will spread to the point where half the games resources go to just that, and everytime they play all their energy will end up going to sneaking around hiding from PVP players.

    Again I'm not saying that is the case here or that it would happen here but by the same token PVP expansion in UO lead directly to an army of foul mouthed pimping talking 13yr to 15 yr old griefers who spent all their time doing nothing but killing people who wanted to be left alone or just blocking the front of the bank while they endlessly tried to invent new ways to simulate sex with emotes while stripped to their underwear. The end of UO before they resurrected it was the exact reason I avoided Wow.

    PVE players grew directly out of DnD games and DnD games were a refuge from violent jockish aholes while FPS and PVP in RPGs kind of started with those same types on console games. When the PVP mentality made the jump to PC gamers and spread to a segment of the PVE community for the rest it was the equivalent of those jocks bashing into your house during a campaign and taking bats to everything. It was the world they were trying to escape trying to ruin their refuge.
    Even though they left the bully types everything they still had to come take this to.

    And it came with insane levels of abuse, hate ,and cyberbullying that's when we started hearing new words like spawn camping.

    As PVE players had no experience in this they quickly fell victim to power leveling mega guilds who's sole purpose was killing and hunting players who had no chance to catch up in skills or stand a chance of defense. Instead it was the constant frustration of spending hours clearing a dungeon just to have someone pop in and kill them the second they finished the boss and steal the loot. The games became pointless.

    Now a days some PVE players are downright nasty to PVP players but that came with 20 years of past PVP players pulling Alpha Male type BS and PVE players knowing that they have far fewer games to play.

    Everything now just seems the product of this old fight with few people around from those times but 1 thing that still remains true is this PVP players will call out PVE players and publicly insult them in games for refusing to fight while refusing to accept or understand why they don't want to ,and these PVE players live in constant fear that the next update will force them off the game. A game that they are far more invested in most times than the PVPs are as PVP players are much more fickle and will jump games.

    I liked how Asherons Call handled it back in the day. They had a PVP only server but also had optional PVP on every server anywhere on the map. PKs as they were known then flagged PK and were given a red name allowing them to kill other red names while at the same time they had a mechanic where if you killed someone you were stuck as a PK for a week or two. This form of optional PK lead to plentiful hunting for them and at times even allowed guild wars consisting of hundreds or even thousands of players as well as epic guild feuds lasting years.

    And I'll tell you what, not a single person complained and PVE and PVP players took part in it together. Everyone got what they wanted and no one was forced into a thing.

    And the best part was that on update days the PK and test servers were left up and would explode with activity. Though I was 100% PVE patch days were one of my favorites .
    Even spawn campers became fun as one day my guild made a bunch of level ones to go play PK only to be systematically dispatched by some level 80 toon camping the log in point. Our response was to coordinate the people coming from our server so we came in in great enough numbers so that 1 and 2 at a time could escape. When we had about 60 of us we swarmed and that level 80 ran for his life.
    We chased and hunted him for about 20 mins while he screamed for help from his guild.
    Then proceeded to make that guild's life hell for 2 hours as we used an area with 2 rez stones as our stand.
    In the end they gave up.

    Point of the while story is this.
    PVP hate didn't come from nowhere but, with a good system both sides learn to understand the other and can enjoy the game as a whole instead of just a part. And everyone benefits as server populations were never a problem back then.
    Hell my guild was 2500 members strong twords the end and, was while above the average in size , was nothing really special for the game.
    And before you rant about problems with multiple server or shards if you will, you should know that they were numerous because of the massive player base. In fact the game came out in the 90's and just finally shut down about a year or two ago.

    As to the optional dual system they have here, I have never seen it work anywhere and why would it? If someone repeatedly challenges me to a dual the assumption is that I'm an easy kill for them so it's pointless to risk my stuff while the person challenging me risks nothing and is immune from retaliation as he has to agree to fight again. While in the other game once he kills me he can't unPK for at least a week. Doesn't sound like much but then again that's a week if he avoids conflict...
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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