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Etceter mines, waste of time, not enough resources.

Discussion in 'Release 38 Feedback Forum' started by Anvar, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Have to agree with this sentiment. I'm getting more adventure xp than producer xp "mining" at Etceter, just doesn't seem right.
     
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  2. Laurana

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    So going by your logic here you'd be happy if next patch they put trees in the middle of your favorite adventure zone that you must gather before you can kill anything? Oh, and every patch after that they're going to increase the number of trees spawning and decrease the number of mobs for you to fight. Did I forget to mention you'll also have to have a producer level of at least 50 to have a chance of clearing the trees and getting back to the fighting you want to do?

    Gathering and crafting is hard enough in this game, it doesn't need to be harder.
     
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  3. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Laurana, I LOVE the idea of putting trees in a zone that you have to chop down before you can get anyplace.

    Lets take it further! And yes, they should get harder and harder every patch so unless you level your crafting you can't even go do what you want to do in the zone. In fact, ALL good fighting spots should require a high produder level to chop through vines so you can walk, mine down barrier walls etc. In fact we should also make it so that if you don't have enough crafting level to adventure someplace, if you attempt to adventure there without the crafting level you LOSE EXPERIENCE. We'll also make it so that trees you chopped down perfectly easily one day are impossible the next randomly for no reason whatsoever. And make you rest for 2 minutes between each chopping to regain energy.

    Yep, it makes about as much sense to me as how things are now, with the crafting/adventuring reversed.
     
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  4. Mac2

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    LOL shim.
     
  5. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

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    I don't think Etceter mines is a waste of time. It's one of the 3 mines that I frequent, Elysium and Spectral being the other two. It's a good place if gold ore and production xp are both at the top of your current needs list.

    I think the big picture is the real problem. All of the mines are much harder than they used to be and there isn't any intermediate content. The only thing close to an intermediate mine that I know of is Serpent's Spine, and even that has roaming mini bosses that are much higher level than the rest of the mobs in the zone, as well as earth elementals.

    I don't really mind combat skill being tied to resource gathering effectiveness. I know it's not what everyone wants, but it also comes with some nice advantages. Gaining adventure xp while doing something else and only being intermittently attacked is extremely efficient. You're always full focus and life for fights and can just spam away with no worries. Other than the first couple of days after persistence, I haven't done any adventure xp grinding at all. Almost all of my play time has been spent mining and crafting, and my adventure level is almost as high as my production level (85/88) just from killing the stuff that attacks me when I'm gathering.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
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  6. Gix

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    @Laurana then what you do is you ask them to remove enemies from gathering areas. While I wouldn't necessarily agree with the change either, it makes far more sense than to have a non-stop supply of resources to gather within the same location.
     
  7. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Its really a matter of what the devs want to be achievable in a region. How valuable they want a resource to be. Perhaps its better mining in one region over another. I hear elysium has good gold yield
     
  8. MrBlight

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    Enough of a gold yield that i dont understand why you would go to Etceter in the first place =P

    that being said, maybe etceter will be the best yield of gold, when all the mines are un cloned ?
     
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  9. Chrystoph Reis

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    1st balance risk\reward - if monster level X average ore per node = X + bonuses
    2nd create more than one spot with the same resources.
    3rd make mines run out of resources if you over mine. i.e. If a player spent X hours in a mine he would be allowed to mine X amount of resources, after which he would have to wait X amount of time before the mine had those resources again. That way he would have to move around to other locations and explore mines.
     
  10. Solazur

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    aye.. the current mines, are placeholders..or at least I hope they are lol. It'll be interesting t see how things work out when they unclone and finally get some balance in. I think it'd be cool to have a coal mine somewhere that people could start off their mining careers in. there are more than a few places new mines could show up.. maybe we'll see some new ores come in and .. hey... maybe smelting could become meaningful
     
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  11. Sara Dreygon

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    Aye... need noob areas where only a slime spawns every 30 minutes but that also yields poor ore #'s. We have a lot of new players that just want to start out and would love to just mine ala Minecraft.
     
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  12. Laurana

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    @Gix I would love some limited scenes like that (random encounters maybe) but they are hung up on this risk vs reward thing in gathering. I don't think unlimited resources in an area is really the way to go but I don't think the way it is now is very good.
     
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  13. Anvar

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    Perhaps if you went out mining youd know im not after something easy, but there is 0 point in Etc as is because its not just easier but there is more ore in easier places. Before Etc had so many nodes that 2-3 people could go at one level , and the spawns were stupidly easy to kill so it was totally imbalanced. The original spawn of ore would be about appropriate for the level of monsters that are now in there, which incidentaly if youve not explored the lower level before the lich recently has 1-2 ghosts per room + several spawns of ghosts in the corridors + some 6-700hp skeletons.

    Compare that to the top of Elysium (which is changing soon but is a clone of Graff mines) and all you have to fight there for nothing but gold is 4 3-400hp kobolds and a 3-400hp skeleton.
    Granted its much more fun and challenging in the bottom of Etc and the xp is much better, but then surely thats where the best ore should be ??

    I dont want it easy, the more challenging the better, but dont have a mine with easy to get silver and another with easy to get gold another with easy to get iron/ copper then have one with the hardes mobs of all and a mediocre spawn of ore then tell me I want it easy, the point is this mine will be unused, and no doubnt metrics will show that over time.

    Personally Id like to see the mines redesigned so that at the top there were only a few nodes and the deeper in you went the more frequent or more rare ores would spawn, and lets have more levels going 8 levels deep fighting down to progresively harder but increasingly more lucrative node spawns, but with much greater risk of being swamped and killed, maybe patroling groups of aggro mobs etc, make it get to be group only stuff or the few godlike players to stand a chance of surviving down in the depths.
     
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  14. Lazlo

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    There is a point to going there though. Etceter still has the highest ceiling of gold ore of any mine. Mining there isn't as good of an overall value as Elysium, and it's difficult to get to everything, but there are many more gold nodes on the bottom levels of Etceter than there are in Elysium if you can kill Nyrond. Yesterday I got a little over 3k gold ore and 700 copper there.

    I agree that the balance of mines needs a lot of work, but this one is better than people are making it out to be.
     
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  15. Gix

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    @Anvar I'm merely arguing against the ability to have 2-3 people gathering ore non-stop. I'm against even a single person being able to do that.
     
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  16. Lord Ravnos

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    Because player skill differs. (not talking about character or skill level) I assume they're attempting to do most of what you suggested. Certain players are going to be better at the activity in question, so the devs are going to have to balance for the average, balance for the mean, and balance for each extreme... very difficult task.
     
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  17. Lord Ravnos

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    How about some Coal mines with hardly any enemies? Just thinking out loud here... may as well make some salt mines as well. Reason being that these commodities are valued much lower than the metals like gold and silver.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
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  18. Teralitha Tokomi

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    they are playing the wrong game then
     
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  19. Teralitha Tokomi

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    Yep, its the perfect setup for botters. And all this fake outrage is probably from them....
     
  20. Rosemourne

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    It's not really a fake outrage, though I don't think it's quite an outrage, either. The main issue here is the downtime for players who enjoy gathering more than other activities. If you mine for 10 minutes and then have to wait 10 minutes for respawn, that isn't enjoyable. If you were fighting monsters for 10 minutes, but then had to stop for 10 minutes to wait for the monsters to respawn, I'm pretty sure you'd have an outrage there, too. I understand that, for many, it's difficult to comprehend that there are players who simply enjoy mining. Or, perhaps, there are players in the mindset that mining simply shouldn't be done non-stop. I feel this is because the means of balancing the ability to mine non-stop directly limits the combatant player's ability to gather resources without participating in an activity they might loathe.

    Frankly, I think it should be that way. There are several sandbox games where resource collection is done by a specialist. UO, Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, Eve Online, Ragnarok... A great many games through history had this kind of a system. The gatherer collected the materials and the combatant consumed them. If you make a game where the gatherers are bored 1/3-1/2 of the time, you'll have a game without gatherers. Then you've got a game where every combatant is a gatherer, makes their own goods, and has no reason to consider a visit to the marketplace. Separation of tasks is absolutely vital to an economy and is healthy for the game.

    They shouldn't make gatherers face downtime. Sure, decrease yield. This will also directly impact the amount that combatants can gather on their own time between mobs. Both would benefit the economy and would not negatively impact the chosen play style of either.
     
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