First time player feedback.

Bowen, its ok, I don't expect you to understand. Its what you grew up with.

 

... At what point did I imply I didn't understand? All I'm saying is that the behavior isn't new.

 

Saying that they are cheating is harsh. Saying that they are "cheating" is not.

 

This

this

 

How do you feel about it personally without the 3rd person view? Do you think I am wrong for feeling the way I feel about this situation? I am talking about the situation of where probably by the context of these forums that 95% of the people will bypass normal gameplay if given the opportunity. They will read spoiler threads, they will watch spoiler videos, and they will go to spoiler websites. Again I am just trying to understand why even people play the game if they do not want to "play" the game. It boggles me.

 

How I feel about it is irrelevant. You cannot control how people wish to experience the game and no matter how I might wish everyone would just play it as intended I know that will never happen. We all want something different so different things matter to us.

A great many things boggle me about what people want. Why for example.. would anyone want to play the bad guy? It doesn't matter how well you explain it to me.. I might gain some small understanding but I'll never be able to relate. It's just not in my nature. (Although if I must say I've made some memorably short term NPC bad guys in my time but it's not the same as playing one full time).

If you ask me.. trying to understand it in a specific or personal sense is futile. It's like a non-PvPer trying to understand why a hardcore PvPer would want to go after weak opponents who aren't interested in the fight.. or the non-RPer PvPer trying to understand what's so special about role-play. I am of course speaking in very broad terms here but I think you get the point.

I don't think you're wrong. Do I think people are missing out by 'skipping ahead'? Sure. But why should I bother to care? I've seen all sorts of attempts to try to force people to play a certain way and it just never happens. The best you can do is try to influence with gentle nudges and hidden tricks but ultimately players will be players.

For any player.. the acquisition of knowledge is a one time event. Once they have it it's over. Whether you get it one way or another.. for some it's only the experience after the knowledge that they find fun. For others the experience of acquiring is fun also.. but afterwards both end up in the same place.

 

I do not think I ever mentioned forcing anyone to do anything, I am just stating how it has evolved and how people basically want instant gratification and justify it by being in the herd of instant gratification people. In game role play or pvp and all that stuff is in game mechanics and things that you cant really do or skip. The devs put hours and hours and years into development of some features to only have the majority of people log in to get a hat, or do a daily, or do a quest because it has a cool reward, but they don't want to enjoy the journey, they just want the end reward. They dont want to explore, think through a puzzle, or gain skills through game play. I am not saying we should force anyone to do anything, what I am saying is its very sad that this is the way things are, and although many people could give 2 craps less about my thoughts here, I think it is important and needs to be said. And Bowen, I think your personal opinion is important as it is something that defines people, instead of just evading and using general consensus.

 

Here is where we differ in opinions. You say things have evolved into this state. I say people have always been like that. The only difference between then and now is we have more tools.

Sad? of course.. but the only things you can do is try to force a change, entice a change or do nothing. Didn't say you said anything should be forced.. but those are pretty much the options.

I hope you're not making the mistake of thinking that I do not value my own opinions on the matter. I only say it's irrelevant as it changes nothing. So I would rather take a more analytical approach to the subject.

 

Well how can you say we differ on opinions if you will not share your opinion. I do agree that this has always been around but it has never been as widely accessible and also free now. I don't think the only option is forcing ever. But through discussions like this, and enlightenment of the subject matter some people might become aware of this. Of course people do not think its bad because they have never experienced the actual gratifications of achievements on your own merit. Spoilers are the norm now and widely accepted an no one wants to fight to make things harder. I get it. I know there are many old school players out there and possibly they know what I am talking about (not saying you don't, or do, I dont know as I dont know your opinion ). We used to rely on each other and ask each other questions in game instead of being anti social (looking up the answers online) and trying to look like we did it ourselves, in which some people did. Many just wanted to look like they did. Keepin up with the jones is important ya know! It gave guilds purposes and they were formed to do the adventuring and the helping young players. Now its *new player runs up and askes a question* *veteran player points to website*

 

I thought the apparent difference of opinion was rather obvious. And actually I have been giving my opinions the entire time really. lol if perhaps a bit veiled. Though now I suspect you're really talking about something else entirely. Which I will dub a degradation in challenging gameplay.

Now if we're talking how players are impatient, lazy and selfish we may as well be having a philosophical discussion on the human condition within the context of gaming. If we're talking about publishers and developers catering more and more to those player's tendencies.. I'll say it plainly. It stinks! Is that good enough for you?

 

yes it is! Thats all I wanted to hear! I had to twist your arm quite a bit to get it though haha

 

If that's the case you could've just said you were talking about publishers/developers from the get go! Developers you can do something about..

 

well I am not talking directly about the developers lol, just my perceived problem. The first step to helping yourself is to admit there is a problem. I pretty much know this falls on deaf ears but wth. As I stated before it can affect game play if you want to be a merchant or do any kind of marketing in game. You are essentially *forced* to use spoilers if you want to compete in the economy.

 

That's only true for a period of time and in itself is a product of being impatient. It's up to the player if they want to compete that way. They aren't forced to check websites anymore than they can be forced not to.

This is what I was saying earlier.. discovery of information is a one time thing. Eventually the person who discovers in-game catches up to those who did it through spoilers. After which they're both in the same place. There's only so much information to discover. There is no race to an imagined finish line. For those of us who will be sticking around.. and taking crafting as an example.. it won't matter in the long run whether we get a recipe on the first day or it takes a month.. we'll be using it for the next 5+ years.

 

Yes, I agree in the long run on an Individual basis this is the case. I also know that no one has to check the websites but people will because they want to catch up and compete as quickly as they can. This is the problem because if a new player joins say 6 months into Episode one, and most of the crafters have all the recipes, the new player has 4 options. gather and experiment. Do kind of an internship with a crafting guild (socialization ). Buy the recipes. Or look them up online which bypasses the gold sink of recipe's, bypasses the social interaction, and bypasses the learning process and discovery methods. It effectively makes the game mechanics pointless IF you want to be competitive in the market. No one is forcing you, but if you want to be competitive you are forced to.

 

You mean IF you want to be competitive more or less as soon as you're in the game. Again what you're describing is only a short term condition. One might wonder what the rush is to compete when in theory you'll be playing over a very long period? It makes no difference if it's the day of the launch, 6 months or 3 years in.

Besides, using that logic we could say every player who doesn't log in during the first month is automatically compelled to check websites regardless of whether or not those who logged in earlier did. In which case.. it truly and surely is pointless to even bother with it. And no one would be at fault since there really isn't anything you can do about the situation.

I just don't buy the "if you want to be competitive" argument.. because it still boils down to how soon you want to be competitive. Taking a little longer does not negate your capacity to compete in the long term. So what does it matter really? You're only "forced to" if you're impatient and absolutely must compete starting yesterday or else you're just doing to die or something.

 

Short term, long term, whatever. The fact is that it does effect everything. In my opinion it is game breaking in the sense that it allows you to skip over stuff that you would have to work to do without it. I can see that you will argue any point on this and I honestly think you just like being argumentative . The facts do not change, sure the time duration does effect eventually the outcome, but the fact is that people do RELY on these websites instead of playing the game and working to find the solutions in game. How it affects others, or what ever is not the point really. I was just using that example as how it can effect game play. If you cannot see that well I don't know how to be any more clear. Again, why even play the game if you are going to just read how to play it on a website? Lets spend 500 bucks on a game, log in, and read up how best to min/max your time on a website. Go through the motions of doing what some one tells you to do, then have your bragging rights at social gatherings. It is just wrong lol.

 

I don't want ruin the fun but, humans most of enemy humans got 1 simple model. The same colors/skills so it doesn't matter if you kill bandit or "champion" only difference is in hp/exp/name tag and sometimes the name is the same. So when I go into enemy encampment after 10 kills i stop watching fight. Good at least animals are different! 2nd thing is after 30 -40 lvl ( will know that for sure after next wipe) there is no challenge (30 Damage Resistance and most minions won't scratch You) unless monster got bugged attack (through wall, multiple attacks in one second or stacking dots) or there is plenty of them. Not mentioning armors/weapons at NPC are better (in my opinion) than done by players, and if You know how much time You need to gather resources for armor it is INSULT ( i understand it is alpha and people had to have tools to test things) and PURE waste of Your Time.

I play few months so i don't have good comparison what it was before ( last year), but the DEVS are trying make TO MANY things (and many of them is SIMS thing,) and plenty things is not working as it should, after so many changes in short time. Right now for me game is becoming SIMS not MMORPG. From few releases which i play there is ALWAYS DELAY in this release pissed me off

What point is making plan when You don't stick to it. It is like saying someday we will do that, that and that but atm we give You this, this and this our excuses are. I think sometimes is better not to write what we didn't
accomplished and why.

http://sotawiki.net/sota/Release_18 You can see Yourself how many thing are not done. It seems there isn't enough workers and now will be summer vacations so wonder what will be looking R20. Fun is under 50 lvl when You discover world and still can die, after that it is BORING. I wait for next release but every day is harder to me find reason to login.

 

In what kind of meaningful way? Will anyone know it when they see it? If we're 6 months into the game and I've completed quests and have a bunch of recipes in my recipe book.. will you know how I got them? Will you even care?

Oh the irony! We're we just every so recently in another thread having a very similar argument where are roles are reversed? Now here I sit wondering why you care so much about behavior you know is going on even though you have no solid evidence of specific occurrences. Granted in this case it's players doing it to themselves rather than to other players. Different dynamics. But still. You're willing to say "it's just wrong". I could cut the irony with a knife and serve it to you.

But every time someone rails against players using websites and how it effects this or that.. I've never seen an argument of how it effects anything in a meaningful way. How is the economy going to end up any differently? How is there a detrimental effect on a merchant if they don't get in on the market very early on such that they can never recover? Where is the long term effect?

 

Could you please enlighten me on WHO it is "game breaking" FOR?

I don't really think that someone who reads a post that tells them where a quest guide is - would agree that it is "game breaking" for THEM.

So who is it "game breaking" FOR? Do you somehow feel that their decision to look at a "spoiler" is "game breaking" for YOU?