Gathering need to be changed before I go stir crazy

That's what this entire thread is about.

I think the biggest problem right now is that nothing is fully implemented yet. It's really hard to gauge whether or not the existing system will feel balanced, too challenging, too boring...etc. Right now, for anything other than basic resources, there is a horrible grind aspect to crafting.

I personally don't care about GMs. What I do care about is feeling like I'm progressing, feeling like I'm getting the materials I need with a reasonable amount of effort, and being able to play the game the way I hope to (being a crafter). Progression is there....the amount of effort it takes to get anything/craft anything feels way too challenging... and there's no way at this point to play the game the way I hope to (for a multitude of reasons but partly attributed the effort statement). I think there really needs to be some adjustment to drop rates and material requirements.

 

You may underestimate the material generation capabilities that high level people have now. If it got adjusted upward it would flood the market. I'm all for re-tuning the skills (like the swift gathering stuff i posted about earlier) - but across the board increases would be detrimental.

(As an example i would point to the changes in cotton prices since agriculture went in... pretty much undercuts any foraging gatherers now)

 

I'm not talking about basic materials. I'm talking about all of the other items required to add stats to gear or to make dyes..etc. Have you spent much time crafting?

 

you tend to get the rare metals at a rate of about 1/5 per basic one. If you have thousands of basic material you will have hundreds of those. Only one i really see being hard to get atm is the beetle carapace.

 

I'd be curious to see what your collection rates of tin, nickel, suet, beetle carapace and tree barks are per hour. I'd love to know how they compare to mine. Based on your statement I should be a SoTA millionaire by now (and in a number of previous releases). I'm just not getting those rates of drop when I level any of my gathering professions. I have experimented with all of them. And many of the people I am friends with in game aren't getting those kinds of drops.

And even if you have hundreds, again, I ask....have you spent much time crafting?

It all ties together. I'm not saying I have answers to these questions. I am saying that balance is in question right now. You want successful crafters so that you have a successful economy. You don't want a flooded market either. But the flooded market scenario is significantly helped by the concepts of durability and repair. People will need to replace gear. Will supply be able to keep up with demand?

The gathering grind ties into all of this.

-edited because I can't do math this late at night...I'll adjust my numbers in the morning

 

Couple hours for 100 suet? Money as a crafter is sadly only in crits and selling items to npcs atm. I've been mining for about 1 hour and 20 minutes now (talking a lot in game and posting on forums etc) -I have 79 copper, 110 iron, 18 nickel, 12 tin, 23 tungsten, 11 zinc, 378 granite blocks.

 

Hard to explain. If in the process of adventuring, resources are quick and easy enough for any adventurer to harvest, then they'll harvest everything they come across and will eventually GM the gathering skills.

I'd like for someone who has no interest in mining to not just mine every node they come across because it takes them no time to do so. I'd rather these players see a node, try to mine it, see how long it takes, and decide to do something else with their time other than mining.

If gathering took no time and was essentially just instantaneously picking resources up, most players would do so every time they saw any resource and would eventually GM said skills without much effort or even trying to.

 

Noric, many thanks for the insights. I just rolled Skillful Harvest from 53 to 54. I have producer level at 59, and I started getting a 61% chance.

 

At the moment, from a beginners point of view who loves the gathering/crafting side of games, the gathering is a miss. And remember I am writing this from the point of view of someone just starting the game.

1) When the gathering begins, so too does the tedium. The golden rule of player interaction is broken and hence they become disengaged with the game. That's ok for very short spurts, but the waiting time is far too long. When I first did my gathering I actually did a double take and thought 'this cant be right???' Anyone who has played another game with gathering will likely do a double take. They will have to do copious research on skills and forums to find out whether this gets tolerable over time with skills... and yes, I said gets tolerable... not becomes fun.

2) If you are going to make it take this long, make it interactive in some way. I think EQ2 and their crafting process was great... it was a mini game and interactive. Have that sort of thing for crafting/gathering in this game, something to engage the player instead of a status bar and can perhaps influence the outcome. Or do something that makes it more rewarding on failure. Perhaps a 'determination/persistance' buf that increases a crit chance or something every time they fail. That kind of makes failure more tolerable.

3) The first few days in the areas I gathered, nodes always seemed to be near creatures and I always had to fight to get to the node. Then often as not, as I begun gathering it, another creature seemed to materialise out of thin air and attack. You finally get to the node and then that LONG cycle and wham, failure. Isn't this a double whammy?

I know it is not the same at higher skill levels, but I am taking it from the point of view of someone starting.. Wasn't one of the ideas behind this game that it is fun while leveling and not just at the end?

What does Portalarium want gathering to be? Something everyone can do on their adventures? or really only dedicated gatherers? If only dedicated gatherers then it takes something from the adventuring aspect.. I know as I go through zones I like to stop and gather. That is part of it to me.

And just on a side note... refining and actual crafting. Why are they instant with a click of the button while this takes so long? I think they could definitely benefit from the mini game aspect! It actually gives you a sense of participating in the creation, rather than just magically appearing

 

It is a pretty slow increase. I think at 65 producer and 78 skilful harvest i got to 67%.

 

Chris has now posted on these issues in my bug report here.
I think we can put this to bed now...

 

GM gathering going to use 1800 xp per use? Scary....

 

Chris is on top of it so I'm not scared at all.
In the end, I believe it will all be balanced properly between too easy and too hard - which is what we ALL want.

We'll see what they've done with it in exactly 3 weeks from today....

Let's go find stuff to report on another topic...
And thanks to Gamician for bringing this one up.