Global Item Search

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by Templarius, Feb 18, 2021.

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  1. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    These items are used in churnable, bottable loss-making crafts where people are essentially paying gold for exp and I expect are when the usual farmer-producers they know about are out of stock. And I expect to some lesser extent (I've done this myself) where I just need 50 or so to top off my regs to go fight and don't feel like hassling with the HASSLE that is shopping on player vendors.

    Another reason to have a search, particularly if we're moving toward a system where NPC will no longer be an option.
     
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  2. Cordelayne

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    Oh I totally agree, I would prefer to have prices listed always, just trying to be accommodating to those players who don't want it. As you have pointed out, time and time again Kaeshiva, it's more about the time sink than the money sink.

    Who wants to waste all that time, dealing with loading screens, running around REALLY laggy crafter towns, using teleport scrolls, more loading screens, just to TRY and find one...dang...item...seriously! It sucks, it makes me annoyed just talking about it, because it is so asinine. Forget about how unintuitive it is for a new player to grasp. I know which towns to go to and I still avoid them because I hate the process so much, lol!
     
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  3. AzazelReborn

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    People don't want to show prices because all of their prices are over priced that is why. Also the fact that real money is also involved they do not want to loose that too. Once a global market search with price is added to game, everyone will be on an even playing field and those players do not want that.

    It is out of greed that you wouldn't want a global search. So everyone that's wants a global search from what I am seeing is like 90% of the player base want it.

    Give us a global vendor search with prices so we can have transparent market and leave behind the archaic ways of 10s of loading screen to search for item you actually want.
     
  4. CICI

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    100% want vendor search =) I'm a Trader =) will make more gold with a global vendor search! refresh 10 mins to 1 hr lol (town base vendor search with Prices is the best tbh)
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
  5. Wilfred

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    The difference is that we posters are much more polite and thoughtful now. Which makes the discussions a lot more fun. :)
     
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  6. Morgathys

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    There is a bunch of economical chairmen over there lol

    For those don't knowing my point of view on this, I don want to see global search with prices for some reasons;
    - Prices harmonization which leading the prices down
    - Some POT will not worth to be visited anymore if their prices are not shown as the lowest
    - No more hype to find a precious jewel on a nowhere vendor
    - No more well known vendors built on reputation (Coto=Shawn, Regs=Leain, etc)

    With a global search, that will help to find what you are looking for but many other socio-economic aspects will disappear and I believe its better to keep it as is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  7. Barugon

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    This is only if prices are included.

    Global search does this:
    • Allows everyone to participate in the economy.
    • Encourages people to visit other towns too.
    All the exclusivity embodied in the rest of your points does not appeal to me.
     
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  8. AzazelReborn

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    Without seeing the price of items, there is no need for a global vendor because it will have the same effect. You will see 25 listing of an item, and you will still need to travel to each one of them to find the price your willing to buy.

    The only benefit I can see for no price listing is to finding the special unique item that you do not care how much it will cost you.
     
  9. Cordelayne

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    Lol I see what you did there friend! ;)

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. FBohler

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    After reading and thinking a lot about an item global search with prices, I became more favorable of the idea. I think the devs can go ahead and implement said item search.
     
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  11. majoria70

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    I am in favor of being able to look up an item I want from a list of vendors. It can be very basic like: Item name, Who has it, And where. If you want to know the price before send a whisper but again to me pricing is not the whole thing.

    -For example does my song vendor offer a bag with all 4 song parts to Somebody to love and does my equipment vendor sell a bag of a full set chain mail (perhaps it's all +12 or starter armor that is red or blue tinted enamel metal).

    -Perhaps I have a furniture vendor selling a full living room set that includes a couch(sofa), 2 chairs, coffee table, 2 lamps, a rug, and 2 end tables and it's blue tones.
    -Perhaps I have a fashion vendor selling a full ballroom gown set to include shoes, hat,gown, gloves and perhaps a fan. All assembled in a bag.

    -Perhaps we have grab bags if you're brave you might take a chance since these wouldn't show items as a regular bag of goods would.

    Really we could make this whole vendor selling feature we have so much more fun and interesting if only we would. Again we would need to have the ability to sell bags of goods on our vendors which we cannot at this time. We need tools, tools, tools.
     
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  12. Wilfred

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    There are several possibilities for what could happen with a RVSwP:

    - Players usually shop in only one region, because most of the big market towns with convenient one-stop shopping are located in that region.
    - Players usually shop in their local region, since they can get to local merchants more quickly, and merchants in every region mostly offer the same goods at the same prices.
    - Players usually shop in various regions depending on what they are looking for, since merchants in each region have different specialties.

    I agree there is a danger with RVSwP that one region could become the go-to, and shoppers mostly ignore the other regions. If one region is the go-to for shoppers, then it would be difficult for merchants in the other regions to compete. Merchants in many areas are already at a disadvantage, since the big market towns are mostly clustered around Brittany. But even in the worst case scenario where one region becomes dominant, I think traders would still keep prices fairly even across regions.

    A GVSwP would give all merchants the same visibility no matter where they are located, but it would force merchants to compete mainly on price, and remove any possibility for merchants to differentiate themselves through regional specialization. Merchants need systems and tools that allow them to differentiate and compete on factors other than price.

    RVSwP would provide a foundation for fun gameplay mechanics that attract merchants and shoppers to various regions. But regional benefits would also need to be added on top of RVSwP to encourage regional merchant specialization. If each region had different merchant specialties, then every region would attract shoppers, and the merchant population would spread out more instead of being so clustered around Brittany.

    In my opinion, GVSwP is a bland system design that would lead to boring gameplay. On the other hand, RVSwP could open up a lot of fun ways for merchants to compete on factors other than price. But to prevent one region from dominating, every region should have its own unique specialties. Each region should have unique perks and benefits for residents and merchants. A well designed RVSwP with regional incentives would encourage merchants to set up shop in various regions, instead of clustering in one region.

    I think it would be a lot of fun to have some friendly competition and rivalry between regions. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  13. majoria70

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    Well not necessarily true. I believe my song prices could be lower than many but some players know how to create songs in maestro and programs like that which I don't. We don't have many tools to make things different or special at this time but I believe we should have those things that allow us to make our sellable items sold in sets in a bag or unique in other ways like dyed with a special dye that could be pricey, or sets of blocks with an instruction sheet to explain how to build a structure. So many ideas to sell creative, unique, and interesting items. One price for items would then be too limiting in many ways and not thinking ahead outside of the box. I want our conversations for improvements to do that. So much that could make this game special if it just would.

    Edited spelling
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
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  14. kaeshiva

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    I agree a regional system would offer a lot of opportunities. The problem is we don't have the infrastructure for a regional system. There never has been. In order for a regional system to work, there needs to be a variance in regional availability of commodities and some sort of barrier to moving things between regions. These do not exist. Even early iterations such as control points which nibbled round the edges of it were bypassed with teleportation abilities - and the ability to move more quickly through the world has something that's gotten easier, not harder. While some items (such as silver ore) are only really available in bulk from 1 location in the game, in Elysium, and people who choose to make their living silver mining may choose to live in that area, the reality is most people teleport in, teleport out, and list stuff wherever they live or, more likely, at a market town so they can have visibility. I live across the world from Elysium mines, but I can get there faster using a single scroll from my front porch, than if I lived in a POT right next to it and walked.

    Like it or not, Sota is already operating as a Global market - its just doing so without any price visibility or searchability.
    Gold ore isn't any cheaper closer to the gold mine, and phoenix talons aren't cheaper if you go to towns near Wynton's Folly. There are no regional barriers so there are no regional differences. Unless we wanted to fundamentally change how travel works, or how housing works, or implement a bunch of new systems to create new regional trade goods, fluctuating prices, etc. we're not going to solve this problem. There was a system to make npc goods (like coal) increase in price if they were heavily used in one city - which could have led to some sort of regional preference emergence. But the effect was never drastic enough to make a noticeable difference, and besides, with hundreds and hundreds of POT vendors it was a minor inconvenience at best to just walk one town over and buy the things. I really think that the regional economy ship has sailed.

    That being said, if we did add a bunch of regional systems, like for example, crafted goods manufactured in different regions had a different "look", or required different components, you'd start to have some regional diversity, but we're talking major overhauls to systems that aren't particularly well balanced -now- before even thinking about splitting them up into several subcategories. You mention regional specialization incentives, which would achieve the same thing - but again we're talking about implementing completely new systems to encourage this sort of gameplay and honestly I just don't think its in the scope. And even if it was - travel's a buttonclick. You're going to sell it from wherever you recall to, more than likely, or from a purpose built market town that gives you maximum exposure.

    The way I see it going, if we implemented a "regional" system, is we'd see the area around Brittany have more and more POTs rammed into it until you can't even walk through there since obviously that's where the market towns are and if people are only going to search 1 place, that's going to be the one. Until the devs have to say right, nobody else can put a POT here. And then that opens up the whole concept of "well, that's not fair" which is a can of worms we probably want to leave alone. I think we're just asking for trouble if we tell people you can own a town but you can't be part of the main price network so you'll need to list your stuff in someone else's town, tough luck.

    We're talking a whole lot of effort to completely revamp the economics system, manipulate supply & demand, somehow restrict travel for shopping without making the entire game more inaccessible, rethink housing and pot rules, etc. etc. etc. to make a regional system workable so that "some" percentage of players can have fun wandering the globe looking for bargains, when "another" percentage of players could care less and just wants to buy what they need and get on with it, or sell the crap they picked up for a fair price and get on with it. While I appreciate for some people, "merchanting" is the game, the reality is for a lot of people, its not the point.

    A global system solves the problem for everyone, anyway. If you want to wander looking for bargains, wander. Nothing is preventing people from doing that, or only shopping at places that they know, with vendors they've got relationships with. Nothing's stopping attractive storefronts or roleplay for the folks who like it and want to do it, they can still do it. You can still advertise, do coupons, open houses, whatever it is that you do to attract people to your shop and the people who appreciate that sort of thing will probably gladly pay a bit more to support a merchant who is invested in their business. I know I certainly do it all the time despite knowing I can buy something cheaper elsewhere. The only thing we really lose is the uncertainty around fair price and the subsequent ability to try and manipulate it, and all the associated clunky tedium inherent in our existing system.

    A regional search with prices will still get all the objections from people objecting on grounds of where they bought their house or the fact that they've built a brand and a customer base or that it makes it "too easy" for people to find things - but it doesn't fully address the problem it is meant to solve, namely, making the market accessible. The fact is that until our regions are crisply defined, there's no point. And we can't diversify regions when you can travel across the world instantaneously as often as you like. Even if you added something that could only be gotten in 1 specific place, unless someone -lives- there, its not getting -sold- there, so its completely moot. Even if you said "okay, this is a carpentry town, so all woodworking in this town uses no fuel" - you might see cheaper woodworked stuff for sale there, but in the round, people will shove it in their global bank and go sell it from wherever they normally do. I really do think the ship has sailed.
     
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  15. FBohler

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    Maybe add taxes / commissions to certain item types in certain regions when listing on the global/ regional search.
    So one kind of commodity will be cheaper and more abundant in certains regions, while other types will be in other regions.

    It's artificial, but it may be a nice gold sink with the desired effect of region specialization.
     
  16. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Well, the problem with that is, it's artificial. So it would never feel like a cool new feature, but an arbitrary nerf to anybody in a region that got taxed.
     
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  17. Wilfred

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    In the end it all comes down to how much we trust the devs to do a good job implementing complex creative systems and making them fun. :)
     
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  18. Morgathys

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    Remove the teleport scrolls and the Overworld map, traveling only from an instance to another one. :D
     
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  19. Wilfred

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    -
    Raph Koster recently posted some interesting articles on game design, including this one:

    Riffs by Raph: Designing for Social Play - 08 Apr 2021
    https://www.playableworlds.com/news/riffs-by-raph:-designing-for-social-play/

    Here's a relevant quote from the article:
    ----------
     
  20. oplek

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    So, to recap. We have choices,
    1. [no global search, no global prices] individuals and guilds who paid-to-win the economy, will continue to do so, squashing the "mom and pop shops". The overall economy will continue to barely have any life signs, as the painful, torturous process of finding something you want will render players unconscious. The mantra of "the economy can only exist if you can't find what you're looking for" will be upheld.
    2. [global search, no global prices] "mom and pop shops" will continue to be crushed, and others will abuse the system with false prices to try to lure people in, largely defeating the purpose, and still causing unconsciousness as people still have to suffer a myriad of loading screens. Maybe not so much as before.
    3. [global search, global prices] "mom and pop shops" will continue to be squished, those who paid-to-win will be much less winning. The economy will move, and after prices normalize - as would be an added bonus - may be in an actual playable state. The ma's and pa's will be sacrificed so that other people can enjoy the game.
    It's basically choose your poison. I'm sure there's some variants in there somewhere, but most likely "do nothing and continue to endlessly balance combat skills" will be our future.