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Good aspects of R4 *MAP*

Discussion in 'Release 4 Feedback' started by Valice_Belgraham, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. Valice Belgraham

    Valice Belgraham Avatar

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    It has a very nice focus and zooming effect that would not look right on the original kickstarter map design. This current map design would actually work perfectly for undiscovered map areas, and is actually what I envisioned during the initial talks of a world map. Darkstarr's ideas of animating and adding further levels of detail to the current design would work great as areas become discovered you see more visuals that detail a region you actually have insight on.

    One of the biggest concerns is that I do not want to know about things that I would realistically not have any understanding of if I had not seen or done something to know what I'm looking at in return. Same goes for NPC name and titles. I don't mind seeing a name or title over someones head, but If I have never talked to the person before, I shouldn't know this person is so and so If I have not been given foresight that the person wears a certain outfit or whatever.

    Great work thus far Darkstarr and crew!

    Darkstarr said this.

    "As in all things this map is a work in progress. Our attempts to make the real map look good were not going anywhere quickly and it didn't feel unique or Ultima like. So we took inspiration from the Game of Thrones intro and decided to go for an Ultima / paper / cloth take on that idea. Over time we want to add animations like waves (ala stage play backdrops), turning windmills, flowing water, volcanos and under siege cities with fluttery papery fire, etc. We also want to experiment with having the trees, towns, mountains, etc. fold open ala a pop up book as part of a transition animation of some kind of opening the magical map.

    Long term we plan other features like pan, zoom, fog of war, etc. to make the whole thing more of a valuable tool. We also want to experiment with different ways for you to enter a hex (current double click feels odd).

    Also the banner will have your coat of arms on it. We also want to maybe show your party members on the map in real time somehow and maybe pins marking guild mates, kindred, friends, etc. (as a toggle).

    Hex lines we either want to toggle or make them match the illustration style vs the current 3D projection.

    I realize this is a big change from the original direction but we all feel that there is a lot of promise in this new idea. Thank you for the feedback to date.

    -Darkstarr"
     
  2. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

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    Oh... My... God... It is beyond my understanding how anyone can truly like this map and try to find good things in it. Do you really think it is fun "exploring" this map? More fun than roaming around a world that looks and feels alive?

    I cannot bear walking around on this brown... mess... what does this have in common with the Ultima games?
    I really don't get it. Why walking around on this map anyway? Why not trim it down even further and just click on and autotravel to locations? This would at least make more sense. But moving around a flag on a map is not exploring a world. There is nothing to explore and see!
     
  3. Aegis159

    Aegis159 Avatar

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    C'mon, play the dramatics much there? This is a work in progress. Darkstarr laid out what they want to do. You do realize they have an autotravel now right? Simply click on that far away hex that you want to visit and it'll take you there without having to click on the hexes in between. I do agree with Starr about the double-click being awkward though. You're also not taking into the fog of war effect that they want to make, so there WILL be exploration of the map once it's in, unless you don't mind not seeing parts of the map and only stick to the roads.

    The prototype was just that, a prototype. EVERY single movement shown on the thing was scripted. There's a large gap between mocking up something like that and having it actually work as intended.

    Jeez people need to calm down some.....
     
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  4. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

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    Sorry but I have a totally different opinion on that. The version of the overland travel system they showed during the Kickstarter campaign and in the months after was a world that felt alive. You had the impression to zoom out and walk around in a WORLD. You saw dragons flying around, Wolfes roaming around etc. It felt alive and teased you into exploring it.
    Now we have a map. I don't know what is the point in exploring a map? I want to explore a WORLD. But maybe that is just me. Maybe I am the only one who thinks that exploring a WORLD is fun, that having the feeling of roaming around in a WORLD is fun, altough it is only zoomed out version. Seems that I have a queer understanding of exploration. Maybe I am spoiled by games like Ultima 1 to 9 and even Ultima Online where exploring a WORLD was an Integral part of the game. And yes, even in Ultima 1 to 5 you explored a WORLD, as the graphical style of overland view and town view was the same, so that it seemed to be a zoomed out version of the world and not a map.

    They should take out moving around on the map and just do the auto travel.

    Also I have to admit to feel cheated. I pledged for the game under the impression to get this overworld view they showed during the Kickstarter campaign. Now they completely changed it without talking to us, the people who already payed for the game. I payed for something and won't get it!
     
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  5. mike11

    mike11 Avatar

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    What I like is

    - the way that the hex layout creates 1000's of tiles, which potentially all be unique inside
    - some tiles can be purposed and some can be somewhat randomized
    - movement seems fine on some tiles
    - choosing what tile to enter via the user (much better than just insta-travel)
     
  6. Valice Belgraham

    Valice Belgraham Avatar

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    Calm down, I actually agree with you for the most part. I do see some good in the current layout too though. What I had thought originally is a map that is like the current layout, but as you moved around on it, it opened up into what we saw during kickstarter, as an explorable world. I would love to have this current style as a fog of war until we explore areas on the map, and then for an actual fog/cloud to come back in on areas we have explored, but not visited in a while.

    Since Darkstarr updated his thoughts on the current direction though, I actually would not be completely against letting them continue to flesh this current path out with details an animation, as I am a huge fan of the opening map to Game of Thrones.

    My ultimate desire would be something more like I just described though, but I'm not opposed to letting a dev team try and show me something I never thought I would like, but ended up liking.
     
  7. rune_74

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    If I remember correctly, in the kickstarter campaign they stated that sometimes when you went into a hex it wouldn't load the same scene and you could get some random unique/rare event happening there. I would be interested to know if that is still in?
     
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  8. frimsah

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    The thing with me is I've always enjoyed exploration very much in the games I play. It's actually quite satisfying to explore each individual hex, from the towns I've seen to the mountainous spider regions.

    I suppose what's wrong is how jarring, and immersion-breaking it is to suddenly explore the rest of the world on a paper map. It's not really exploring, and it's disappointing compared to how you explore the rest of the game.

    I've reflected on this, and I think there are ways the developers can ease players into the direction they've chosen. I think the map works as a map, instead of an over-world exploration mechanic. If you can access the map from your backpack, as an overlay menu that allows you to travel quickly to other destinations, then it works quite well. This is less about exploration/discovery, and instead it's just traveling.

    Just my thoughts, what do you think?
     
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  9. Lord_Darkmoon

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    I agree. It would work as a map in the game. You open your backpack click on your map and then this cardboard/paper map is shown with you as a "flag" to show your position. You could pan and zoom and maybe even fast travel on it.

    But it doesn't work for exploring the world.
     
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  10. Valice Belgraham

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    My only concern with this approach is how would you get your hands on said map in realistic way? It's a great idea, but wouldn't really make sense if you just ported into the world and had one on your character. What kind of market or vender would even think to start making magical teleporting maps for the soon to be influx of avatars in their world, and if they did have these types of things, then why do we have boats and various other means of travel?

    I believe they are also working on cartography and map making skills similar to what UO had, as treasure hunting is something the fan base wants from UO. Having a world travel/teleportation map would most likely interfere with that system/mechanic.
     
  11. docdoom77

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    I just can't come up with anything positive about it. It's a nasty bait-and-switch maneuver.

    Now, a lot of people have complained about the concept of a dual scale map system, but I never did, because I watched the the vids and LOVED the proposed map system. It was it's own living world. Dragons flying overhead, animals darting through trees, birdsong in the background, moongates shimmering in the distance. It gave you the ability to walk around and explore with a smaller version of your avatar.

    Suddenly changing to a paper map (no matter how advanced and animated, rotatable and zoomable it ends up being) is a MAJOR change in the overall game design. I hate it to death. It's the very first time I've felt like the team has truly let us down.

    Of course I'm going to stick with the game. I hope for the best, but a great deal of my enthusiasm has just leaked away. I can tell you honestly, that if they had proposed this system, rather than the amazing one we were originally shown I would have pledged a great deal less than I have. To many of us, this is a very big deal.
     
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  12. Valice Belgraham

    Valice Belgraham Avatar

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    I agree with you. What do you think of my proposed idea, with keeping the current style as a visual for unexplored map, with the explored areas of the map transforming into the original 3d map?

    Or, could the current map system be used with map making/cartography skills, which will be a completely separate system from the over world dual scale system?

    I couldn't see them fully scrapping the current map all together as it's not a totally fugly design, but I agree that it should not be the main over world view for exploration, so where could they use this current system/further updated cloth map design?
     
  13. docdoom77

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    Any of that is fine. But the current map as THE travel map is terrible.
     
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