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Great Axe - Bludgeoning ?

Discussion in 'Release 22 Feedback' started by Snazz, Sep 27, 2015.

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  1. Snazz

    Snazz Avatar

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    So, I finally made an upgrade for 2H wep .. only to find out my massive bladed axe is not my skill tree/line

    :(

    Seems rather odd that it is not bladed ..
     
  2. Nubelite

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    An axe would swing more like a bludgeon since most of the eight is at the head, where as a sword the weight is suppose to be at the hilt to make swinging easier. So from that point of view yes the axe should belong under bludgeoning since there is no axe tree.
     
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  3. agra

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    Yeah, no other game since 1985 considers axes bludgeoning, and yet SOTA does? Terrible design decision. On the plus side, plenty of time to change it. :)
     
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  4. Weins201

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    What did you think it was Swords? Pole Arms? There is no axe tree, sorry for your waste of materials holler at me ill give ya stuff to make what you want / need.
     
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  5. Bowen Bloodgood

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    I would argue that all those other games since 1985 exhibit sod all knowledge about how to wield weapons. I would personally prefer an axe tree.. but axes ARE impact weapons and are wielded in the same manner as bludgeons. They are also constructed in the same manner as bludgeons. So given the choice, having axes in a blades skill tree makes absolutely no sense at all.

    Incidentally, axes were originally in the blades tree until someone convinced the team otherwise. :) It would be far better to give them their own skill tree than it would sticking them in a skill group where they have virtually no similarity with in terms of use.
     
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  6. Lord Aventine

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    Good post, thinking of them like impact weapons explained it to me.
     
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  7. agra

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    Sorry, I'll stick with D&D (axe, slashing) categories rather than some arbitrary decision that makes no sense given over 40 years of history in the RPG genre. And I'm pretty sure more people than just me would considering D&D canonical as a reference on the subject.
    What does wielding have to do with it, anyway? Sounds like when Brad McQuaid, Derek Smart or Ryan Dancey try to justify all their bad decisions in all their failed projects with 'clever' use of vocabulary. o_O
     
  8. Bowen Bloodgood

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    I will take my actual real life experience over a system that makes no sense any day. SotA is not D&D.. and D&D being popular doesn't mean all games should be based on it.

    It's called a SKILL tree. How you wield a weapon is a skill.. and axes and swords are wielded differently. In terms of skill application axes have much more in common with bludgeons.
     
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  9. Snazz

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    Thanks :) I guessed it was Bladed since it's a real big blade

    Although it's kind of a polearm variant...

    Bowen, that makes sense for how one wields it (skill tree)

    Although 2HS and Greataxe have very close fighting styles :)
     
  10. Bowen Bloodgood

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    I don't know about that. :) But really 2 handed weapons in over themselves that aren't pole-arms deserve their own skill trees as well if you ask me. When you get into two handed styles with any particular weapon there are things you can do that you normally just wouldn't with another type of weapon, but I suppose you could make the same argument with any one handed. Part of the problem here is over simplification.

    I try not to be overly critical of the weapon skill trees or else I'll just end up aggravating myself for no good reason. The best I think we can hope for is the most reasonable / believable arrangement with what we have. Now if *I* were designing it.. well.. if I were doing it Portalarium would've exhausted their budget already I'm sure. :) But I think rather than special skills I would've done weapon specialization instead. But then the combat systems I would come up with would probably be more 'twitch' based also. Maybe not the best fit for SotA.
     
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  11. Snazz

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    Amen
     
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  12. agra

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    Nope, not drinking that kool-aid.
    I remain unconvinced, based on your single opinion that doesn't even come close to passing the 'common man test', and I'll stick with the legacy of Gary Gygax, R.I.P.
     
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  13. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Who's drinking what kool-aid now? Game design should not revolve around the alter of D&D. That being your sole argument so far. Though you're welcome to your opinion.. "because D&D" is not what I consider to be a reasonable argument for doing anything that isn't meant to be based on solely D&D. When SotA introduces stirges into the game maybe.. but I don't think that'll happen any time soon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
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  14. Baene Thorrstad

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    I was one of the ones that pushed to have axes be bludgeoning as well, and I stand by that opinion, just as Bowen. I think it is closer to real life, than to have it be bladed. D&D is great, for a table top RP system. It has never been very well translated to real time combat games.

    But even so, everyone has their own opinion, even Gary Gygax. Doesn't mean that one opinion is right for everyone, every game, or every environment. Axes make more sense to me as bludgeon than blade. Is it perfect? No, but it make more sense from a "how is the weapon used" standpoint. Of course, to me, great swords, ones larger than bastard swords, fall pretty much in same category. More hacking, than stabbing.
     
  15. Zassik Dreadmort

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    There really should be an axe tree and a 2 handed style tree.

    Axes are close to blugeoning but certainly not the same.

    I'm a big proponent for a 2 handed tree as there are skills for dual wield and a 1 handed weapon and shield that trancend weapon type and add some flavor but if you wield a 2 handed you only gain access to that particular weapon tree.
     
  16. monkeyrogue

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    Battlefield axes were used to hammer (literally) the guys armor. (Blungeons were more to shock and break bones...concussions are mean)

    The axes would dent the plate and push it into the skin, thus not only hitting like a hammer (WANG!!!!!). But also movement slows because they are trying to cut themselves on their own armor.

    Gygax was a great man with an amazing legacy for us. Let's not get silly here though.
     
  17. KuBaTRiZeS

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    Allow me to remember that D&D doesn't classify weapons by the way they're wielded, it attents to the kind of damage they do. If you want to argue about something, argue about what kind of injury an axe does when it grazes you... But just because an axe is classified as Slashing (when it's not) same way a two handed sword (which is not as well) that doesn't mean you wield them in the same way. Here we don't have kinds of physical damage for now... so there's no point in arguing that.

    As always, realism vs reality. It's simplified but there's beauty in this simplification because having three trees of melee weapons we can manipulate a wide range of weapons, and i think that a great axe is wielded like a bludgeon weapon (you base your hit strength in the momentum you apply to the weapon). A bit of weapon specialization to difference two handed combat from one handed combat could be nice, though (tactics anyone? :D) and I certainly expect to see some differences between each weapon besides damage/crit as the game moves forward.
     
  18. Bowen Bloodgood

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    In terms of actual skills in the skill trees.. axes also function much more like bludgeons in terms of damaging weapons and armor as well. The only skill in bludgeons that make no sense for axes is Ground Pound.. but honestly that skill doesn't make any sense for bludgeons either.. in fact as a non-magical skill it simply makes no sense at all. :)

    I only hope as development goes forward that weapon skills will be more diversified. Though at the moment I do see the need to remain somewhat simplistic, though it's not really to my tastes.
     
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