I propose to you a "Character & Skill Perk" System

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by Mangar, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. Mangar

    Mangar Avatar

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    Hello Groovy Cats,

    I put forward to you all the following:

    * What it is? The Perk (Skill / Character Augmentation) Proposal

    1. There would be 4 Systems I like to Propose all together.
    a) Every 20 Adventuring Levels players chooses a Character Augmentation (Character Perk) One of Three.
    b) Every 20 Producer Levels player choose a Producer Augmentation (Producer Perk) One of Three.
    c) At skill level 40/80/120/160 players choose a (Adventure Skill Perk) One of Three.
    d) At crafting skill level 35/70/105/140 players choose a (Crafting Skill Perk) One of Three. (for Production ONLY)

    2. Restriction & Rules

    a) Skill Perks can ONLY be taken in Specialized Schools. (For Adventuring Only)
    b) Only one Perk can be taken per each level of advancement thus, a Lv. 160 THRUST would have 4 Perks.
    c) An "Augmentation Stone" must be used when taking any type of Perk.
    * Augmentation Stones would be created on the Enchanting table. (10 Gems of each elemental type for Magic + 100 Coal, 3 Obsidian Ingots +100 Coal for Combat, Strategy & Chaos Schools)
    * Alchemy should be at 120 to create the Highest Level Stones as they would ALL have their own Recipe (NON teachable) & Blueprint which can ONLY be Sold / traded Once then it would Bind to character as to prevent Market gaming.

    3. Implementation

    First step should be to create the Recipes & Blueprints for all the Perks and slowly release them into game so player can begin to find them, low level perks should be easier to find. In this initial step ONLY DPS skills in the Adventuring Side would be Augmentable and Character Adventuring Level.
    So, 26 Skills in Melee +24 Skills in Magic = "50 Skills" would need to get 4 versions of each Recipe & Blueprint resulting in 200 Recipes & 200 Blueprints corresponding to each Tier of Skill.

    The Character Adventuring Level Skills and Blueprints would be much simpler. The breakdown would be Adv. level 20 /40 /60 /80 /100 /120 /140. No need to go further for Now as Nobody to my knowledge is lv. 160 and maybe 2 or 3 players at 140 but correct me if I'm wrong there. So that is 7 Tiers, thus 7 Recipes and 7 Blueprints.
    Augmentation Stone would ALSO need their own Recipes and Blueprints, but this would be simple as there would only be 4 Tiers so 4 Recipes and 4 Blueprints

    At a later time, in a few months the system could be expanded to include Buffs, Passives & Crafting Skills.

    Skill Example:
    To augment up Stone Fist at lv. 40 one would need to be Specialized in Earth and have a. Lv. 40 Stone Fist Augmentation Recipe b. Lv. 40 Stone Fist Augmentation Blueprint c. Lv. 40 Skill Augmentation Stone -- these would be turned into each appropriate "Advanced Trainer" who would than Grant the Avatar the Skill Perk of their choosing from possible 3 options.

    Adventure Level Example:
    To Augment the Avatar at Lv. 20 one would need a. Lv. 20 Adventuring Perk recipe b. Lv. 20 Adventuring Perk blueprint c. Lv. 20 Adventuring Level Augmentation Stone -- these would be turned into "The Oracle" who would than Grant the Avatar the Adventuring Perk of their choosing from possible 3 options.

    Here are some examples of Perks for a few skills:

    (again, you would choose one perk per each level)
    Thrust
    Lv. 40 1) + .5 to Range 2) 80% to strike a 3rd target 3) + 5% Dmg
    Lv. 80 1) + .5 to Range 2) 5% Heal reduction 3. +8% Dmg
    Lv. 120 1) + .5 to Range 2) +10% Poison Effectiveness 3) + 5% Crit Dmg
    Lv. 160 1) + 1 to Range & - 1 Cooldown 2) +15% Poison Effectiveness 3) + 10% Crit Dmg & 5% Crit Chance

    Double Slash
    Lv. 40 1) + .2 to Range 2) 10% chance to apply a Bleed 3) +5% Dmg
    Lv. 80 1) + .3 to Range 2) 10% chance to apply a Bleed 3) +5% Dmg
    Lv.120 1) + .5 to Range 2. 15% chance to apply a Bleed 3. + 5% Crit Dmg
    Lv. 160 1) Attacks 3x 2) 15% chance to apply bleed -1 Cooldown 3 + 10% Crit Dmg & 5% Crit chance

    Stone Arrow
    Lv. 40 1) + 2 Range 2) 80% chance to hit a second target in back of primary 3) +5% Dmg
    Lv. 80 1) +2 Range 2) - 5 Focus Cost 3) +5% Dmg
    Lv. 120 1) +2 Range 2) - 8 Focus Cost 3) + 5% Crit Chance
    Lv. 160 1) +3 Range - 1 cooldown 2) 80% chance to apply Bleed on Crit 3) +5% Dmg + 8% Crit Dmg multiplier

    Here are some Examples of Perks for Adventure Level
    Lv. 20 1) +20 Hp 2) +25 Focus 3) 10% Carrying Capacity
    Lv. 40 1) 15Hp/20 Focus 2) +2 Dmg Resist 3) +5 Magic Resist
    Lv. 60 1) 25Hp/40 Focus 2) + 4 Dmg Resist 3) + 8 Magic Resist
    Lv. 80 1) + 15 Carrying Capacity 2) +10 Dodge 3) +10 Avoid
    Lv. 100 1) + 100 Hp 2) +120 Focus 3) + 5Str/+5 Dex/+5 Int
    Lv. 120 1) + 50 Hp/+10 Dmg Resist 2) +60 Focus/5% Spell Crit 3) +5Str / 5%Melee Crit Dmg


    These are just a few examples of what is possible and obviously these values can be altered to fit in a balanced way. Also for those of you who may feel this may result in OP Builds please ask yourself one question, how many skill do YOU have at 160? Thus, for the greater majority most skills will gain 3 perks and only 1 or perhaps 2 skill will be at 160 as it takes 370 Mil.


    The Pros of The Perk System

    1. Give more meaning to leveling your skills and character.
    2. A level or highly focused character customization.
    3. A much needed boost to the Economy through Recipes & Blueprints.
    4. Finally more uses for Gems and Obsidian Chips also stirring up economy.

    The Cons of The Perk System

    1. Chris & Team will have a Meaningful yet challenging task that may result in some frustration and extra coffee consumption.
    2. Some players who enjoy simplicity may not like this - (I'll work on em)
    3. We may get more people interested in game and the server may need more fine tuning, thus Chris and Team may need more Coffee..



    See you game Folks

    Fzol
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  2. Elrond

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    I like it... i just feel combat is again getting all the good stuff while crafting gets the stick...why apply perks for production only ?
    If you have perks for all combat trees shouldnt we have perks for all crafting skills as well ?

    I think this overcomplicates things more then it should. Everyone respecs at one point or another sometimes because their favourite style is nerfed sometimes because they wanna try something new..keeping respec easy to do will save everyone alot of grief and sorrow .

    Questions

    What happens if i respecc do i lose the augmentation stones ? Do i lose the blueprints used ? Do i get them back ? Maybe we could get back the blueprints and lose the augment stone ?

    Why blueprints sold only once ? Whats wrong with market gaming ? Some people enjoy buying low selling high ... i dont think we should restrict playstyles..otherwise we should start with people stealing stuff from other people ( pickpocketing ) which is much worse ( virtue wise) then someone buying and reselling.

    ...............................
    Or to save the staff alot of work they could just create augment stones as drop in the loot table :

    - Lvl 20 augment stone
    - Lvl 40 augment stone
    - Lvl 60 augment stone
    - Lvl 80 augment stone

    so on...

    When you reach apropiate skill level, for example lvl 20, four options appear you can take 1 augment stone and apply it ( socket ) in one of the 4 available options to activate . No more bluperints , recipes , trainers . Wanna try out another branch unsocket the stone and apply it to another branch to activate said perk... or to keep market going for augment stones ... do not allow unsocket just right click and destroy to have all 4 perks available again . Respec destroys the stones and youll need new ones .

    I like your idea as well but not sure how much time Chris is willing to put into this ..creating recipes and blueprints for all the skills in the game seems like a huge workload ...but if you remove all that and have just 1 lvl 20 augment stone fit all skills ingame that reach lvl 20 seems like a faster , cleaner way to achieve the goals for your idea. And the workload moves into creating the actual perks .

    Going even deeper and to also involve crafters in this ... they could add durability to this stones and have them decay just like any other piece of gear would , just not repairable once it reaches 0 needs to be replaced . Crafters could combine these for a chance to get the stones exceptional ( more durability ) and maybe with a little added bonus .

    - Combine 4 lvl 20 common augment stones to get 1 uncommon lvl 20 with 2 % effect bonus to chosen perk .

    up to rare or epic with 2% increase per lvl and ofcourse the chance to get an exceptional stone . Base alchemy skill could determine the success chance to get an exceptional .

    ..............................................

    Another way to go about this would be to just simply give out perk points .

    Option 1

    You reached lvl 20 in a skill you have specialised in you receive 1 perk point ...you can then apply to activate one of the perks you choose ( of the 3-4 available options ).

    Option 2

    You reached lvl 20 in a skill you receive 1 perk point ...you can choose not to apply the point to activate one of the lvl 20 perks and save it for when you reach lvl 40 in a skill apply 2 saved up points ..one will activate the perk the second..third , fourth point can add 2% bonus effect per point applied to a chosen perk . You can choose to save all skill points received but you can only apply 6 max on a perk for an increase of 10% to perk effect .

    I think assigning skill points can work very well with crafting also . For example

    Reaching lvl 100 in blacksmithing can reward you 2 skill points ( at lvl 50 ,100,150). You can choose to apply these points in blacksmithing for a 1 % increase in exceptional chance /point assigned ...or you can save them ... and apply them to masterwork ..increase your success chance by 1% per point assigned .

    After blacksmith skill and masterwork things get more complicated .... to take for example perks for plate armor masterwork could include

    option 1 - 5 health for every piece of plate armor crafted per point assigned
    option 2 - 5% resist for every piece of plate armor crafted per point assigned
    option 3 - 1% weapon damge for every piece of plate armor crafted per point assigned
    option 4 - 5 focus for every piece of plate armor crafted per point assigned.

    The problem i see here is at lvl 150 its pretty much game over for crafters next skill point being at lvl 200 which none will ever get so to keep things interesting and encourage people to lvl their skills a more appropiate balance needs to be found when assiging these skill points at what levels and what the limit should be when assigning them ...just one to activate the perk or no limit if you wanna just focus on one perk.

    It will require an interactive interface for skill trees so im guessing alot of work for Chris . I think giving away skill points for perks when reaching certain level might be the best way to implement this ..as there be no loss when players choose to respec .

    ..............................................

    Another option would be skill points + augment stones as loot drops . You reach lvl 20 in a skill you receive one skill point ( perk point ) you can now activate a perk but you will need an augment stone to do so...the perk is activated the stone is gone from inventory . Every skill point you assign consumes ones stone of the appropiate level.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  3. addrox

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    But I agree ... with Fzol ... more character and skill customization all around please ...

    Also make the augmentation gems drop in PvP zones (including shardfalls) 8) make them (the gems and zones) valuable ... they are currently desolate places ... not even worth a dam to hunt in them
     
  4. Pawz

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    Love the idea!
     
  5. StarLord

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    Sorry, dont like it at all.
    It would add even more specialization.
    I want to go back to the classless system which had been promised at the beginning (e.g. no restriction to 2 specs)
     
  6. Rowell

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    Perks for gathering could be animal mob aggro range is decreased against you (so you can go chop down those trees without getting jumped by every wolf within 5 miles).
     
  7. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    It was said in a stream a few months ago that they were looking into a future perk system ;)
     
  8. Athanil

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    I would love this, maybe with this we will not see everyone running the same old cookie cutter builds. The more diversity there is the better. Let people come up with really crazy builds!
     
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  9. Rook Strife

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    The end result will still be crappy combat system with manually stacking, charging and locked/glyph cd + all the other crap,

    Just with more customization


    What they need to do is

    Choose any one of a billion MMO type games out there with reasonably favourable reviews

    Copy/Paste their Combat system and Skills

    Then customize / improve it to suit this game's strengths.


    Not saying there aern't a bunch of good ideas in there,

    Just that kinda stuff should be done when they have a good basic design in place first.
     
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  10. Violet Ronso

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    I 100% disagree with you. I love this games combat system, what it is lacking is more options and easier to stack combos (or a way better outcome considering the slight task it is to stack a combo).

    I love being able to play with my deck and try to figure if a spell works best being charged up, stacked up, or spam cast on a single dynamic slot. There is plenty of ways to get creative in this system, I would hate to have a WoW combat system added to this game.

    That is my opinion at least.

    I am honestly curious how this Perk system could work out, it for sure would add in some diversity in similar builds, as long as it is balanced in a way that does not ruin low level casual players because High level players found a way to work these in an OP way.
     
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  11. Rook Strife

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    Yea there's people that like Star Trek Online Ground Combat too


    Unfortunately, you can't engage in combat for 5 minutes in this game without coming across some broken mechanic or "Wow this sucks too" moment.
     
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  12. Lord Aventine

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    Huh? I believe 5 minutes is an exaggeration. SOTA combat animations flow very well compared to some of its more clucky competitors. Skills generally perform as advertised. I find very few things truly 'broken'. Balance may be another matter. IMHO.
     
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  13. Rook Strife

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    Really? Tell that to the Satyr archer enjoying full Cover bonuses while I shot him point blank in the face on horizontal terrain with no obstructions last night.

    I wouldn't be surprised if 5 minutes is conservative.

    It's been a while since I've been there but I bet new players are probably getting hit with crap like this right off the bat.




    To add to Violet's post

    Here is the importance of fixing the base combat rather than continually trying to tweak the current system with all these suggestions



    Let see what adding MORE options + improve stacking on top of already being able to

    Level any skill and instantly swap large varieties of decks/skills + being able to charge up + manually stack or spam each glyph

    Does for our game


    1) As Lord Aventine mentioned, balance

    Someone calculate the possible combinations of being able to use any skill in the game, charged from 1-6 times, stacked 1-6x, spam cast, at levels of 1-200, + bla bla bla bla bla

    And then add more options to that


    I would love to see this number

    This is the number the team of what 3 people who are responsible for combat along with performing a ton of other duties at the same time are supposed to balance


    Like there's any chance we're gonna see some reasonably balanced skills at some point in the future. Really



    But balance? Who cares right?

    As long as u can make your selection from a list of OP builds and kill things it's not really a problem.

    Except


    2) PVE

    Since each individual avatar can use such a massive variety of build/skill combo's

    Need to design mobs / instances / raids / pve content for them to fight

    So instead of designing a standard instance/zone

    They have to design it where everyone can swap to a tank / heal / dps / cc.......... at the drop of a hat...........

    With massively varying amounts of damage output / heal capability / Etc..... that they can also produce at the drop of a hat....... in a group of 1 - 12 people.......

    Etc etc etc


    Definitely not difficult to design. After 5 years of trying different things, our pve group content consists of

    Stand around in one spot somewhere like ERG / Upper Tears.



    Our PVP group content consists of

    Oh yea that's right isn't any



    This crap is just scratching the surface.

    So many problems it's not even worth the effort lol



    But hey if they want to make some new novel toy for our current playerbase to play with great.


    The Art / Level designs / In-game systems + ability for playermade content

    is more than adequate that we should have a thriving PVP / Group PVE community

    They need to bring combat up to par
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  14. Damian Killingsworth

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    AMAZING Idea. if this was in I would have hours of new content to play through.
     
  15. Rook Strife

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    Just as an example of the ability to balance what we currently have

    Lets look at Air tree (just because I have it equipped)

    Been in the game what? since the start? 5 years?

    Should be at least somewhat reasonably balanced tree by now right?

    Looking at just one aspect of combat, involving one sub-tree of skills, involving only the stack/lock/draw values of those skills

    reveals that practically every single skill in this tree is broken in some fashion.


    Chain Lightning - rank 1 locked
    100% focus cost
    100% damage
    14 sec cd
    12% increase focus cost for casting it twice
    43% increased focus cost for 3x


    rank 6 locked (Fully Charged)
    55% focus cost
    twice the damage......
    6 second charge time.....
    26 second cooldown........

    Spammed
    100% focus cost
    100% damage
    No charge time
    No cd other than waiting for glyph to draw
    No increased focus costs for repeated use

    Why would anyone in their right mind fully charge/stack this skill with these values?

    It's practically worthless


    Lightning
    Same as the above

    Gust
    Same

    Discharge
    Same

    Shield of Air
    Increased focus xfer + Air Attunement for stacking

    This is the only skill in the entire tree as far as charging vs stacking vs spamming

    There is a reason to use a rank 1 locked, rank 6 charged or stacked, or have it dynamic.

    You might consider a Rank 1 spell for a quick shield swap
    There are benefits to charging as a pre-combat buff

    Unfortunately, it is unbalanced in other regards


    Air Embrace
    Duration is hours long - Why would you use a lower rank except in extreme circumstances?

    Since the only thing you're gonna cast is a full stack
    Why have a 23 second cd before you can fully buff another party member?


    Blink
    3 seconds to fully charge so you can save a pitiful amount of focus
    Why would you ever stack this skill?

    Dash
    Stacked vs unstacked another no-brainer

    Summon Air Elemental
    Nevermind stacking, why even cast this at all?
    With GM+ and Air specialization, you can look forward to your elemental being spanked by a t4 Grizzly Bear
    Walking up to a mob draws more aggro than the elemental attacking 3+ times
    Great party decoration




    In other words

    Looking at just one aspect of combat, involving one sub-tree of skills, involving only the stack/lock/draw values of those skills

    reveals that practically every single skill in this tree is broken in some fashion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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