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[Known] ALL MaxResist% Modifying Skills Not Working Properly - Continued

Discussion in 'Release 36 Bug Forum' started by Xeen Dread, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Avatar

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    Title: All MaxResist% Modifying Skills Not Working Properly (Sympathy of Stone, Deflection, Defensive Stance) Continued from previous SoS Bug Report
    Reproduction Rate: 100%
    Blocker: Strictly speaking, NO, but this is a serious issue affecting everything any adventurer in the game does.
    Details: Any MaxResist% enhancing buff or passive is modified according to what armor you have equipped. The more armor you have equipped (MR% bonus), the less MaxResist% benefit you receive from active/passive skills.
    Steps to Reproduce: Observe Sympathy of Stone, Deflection, and Defensive stance benefits while naked. Equip armor and observe difference.
    User Specs: N/A



    [Heavy Armor] Deflection
    Naked Benefit @ 114: + 18.8% MaxResist (Caution: Precision Error)
    Naked Benefit @ Projected 134: 22.1% MaxResist (Caution: Precision Error)
    Armored Benefit @ 114 (chain 45%MaxR): 10.3% (Caution: Precision Error)
    Armored Benefit @ Projected 114 (chain 45% MaxR): 12.2% (Caution: Precision Error)
    Y=mx+b exact values unknown, m-appx= 0.1125 b-appx= 5%
    Theoretical Maximum-appx= 27.5% MR at skill 200

    N=BaseMaxResist of skill in question
    MR = MaxResist Granted
    MR = N*(100%-Chain45%)
    MR = N*55%
    MR = 18.8*.55
    MR = 10.34%

    [Earth Magic] Sympathy of Stone (SOS)
    Naked Benefit @ 100: 12.5% MaxResist
    Naked Benefit @ Projected 120: 15% MaxResist
    Armored Benefit @ 100 (chain 45% MaxR): 6.875%
    Armored Benefit @ 120 (chain 45%MaxR): 8.25%
    Y=mx+b Slope = 0.125/lvl, Intercept = 0
    Theoretical Maximum = 25% MR at skill 200

    N=BaseMaxResist of skill in question
    MR = MaxResist Granted
    MR = N*(100%-Chain45%)
    MR = N*55%
    MR = 12.5*.55
    MR = 6.875%

    [Tactics] Defensive Stance (D. Stance)
    Naked Benefit @ 100: 20% MaxResist
    Naked Benefit @ Projected 120: 22% MaxResist
    Armored Benefit @ 100 (chain 45% MaxR): 11%
    Armored Benefit @ 120 (chain 45%MaxR): 12.1%
    Y=mx+b Slope = 0.1/lvl, Intercept = 10
    Theoretical Maximum = 30% MR at skill 200

    N=BaseMaxResist of skill in question
    MR = MaxResist Granted
    MR = N*(100%-Chain45%)
    MR = N*55%
    MR = 20*.55
    MR = 11%

    Notes:
    Shields, jewelry, and weapons add 0% MaxResist and do not affect any of the skills.
    Fully Naked I only have 12.5% Max Resist shown on my character sheet (full benefit of GM Sympathy of Stone) as expected.
    Naked Benefit Sum of SoS, Deflection, and D. Stance at current levels = 51.3% (yes I know you technically wouldn't get Deflection while unarmored)
    Benefit Sum of Full Chain Armor Set = 45% (8.5% helm/legs, 6.5% gloves/boots, 15% chest)
    Benefit Sum of SoS, Deflection, and D. Stance while Armored = 28.2% (Caution: Precision Error)
    Expected MaxResist% = NakedSkillBenefit + ArmorBenefit = 96.3% (GM Def Stance, GM Sos, 114 Deflection)
    Shown/Actual MaxResist% = 73.2% (Caution: Precision Error)

    Damage taken far exceeds expectations of mitigation at 90 resist and expected 96.3% MaxResist.
    With a few more levels, I should absorb 100% of all physical damage at or below my target resistance. I should already be nearly immune to physical hits of up to 93.45 dmg (90 resist/.963), that is NOT the case.
    Conclusion: MAXRESIST PROBLEMS ARE NOT SIMPLY TOOLTIP/DISPLAY ISSUES!

    This is part of why clothies did so well at tanking!
    They receive more of the benefit (almost all) of SoS and Def. Stance because the MaxResist% of their equipped armor is lower (in the 10-25% range) and thus reduces the skills be a respective amount where heavy armor reduces the skills by a significantly greater amount (45-55% range). As a result of fixing the math behind these modifiers, it may be necessary to reduce their magnitude by 10% in order to prevent excessive tankiness.

    There's everything laid out nice and pretty. As I suspected a month ago, skills were not being factored into their respective equations properly (multiplicative percentages instead causing a 'weight reduction' of skills when they should be additive), and as a result, wearing heavier armor with higher MaxResist% reduces the effect of any skill that grants MaxResist%.

    Sucks that I have to give away some of my secrets in order to get bugs fixed ><
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  2. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Avatar

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    @Chris
    @Themo Lock

    Keep in mind that any balances/mechanics changes made under the assumption that this system is working properly will come out skewed after MaxResist% is fixed!

    Pretty big issue, needs attention ASAP impo (in my peon opinion).
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  3. Daxxe Diggler

    Daxxe Diggler Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Were these calculations performed today? Because based on the Release 36 notes:
    That means that Defensive Stance "should" be better now for heavy armor and not as good for light armors... compared to R35.

    If that is not the case, then there is probably a bug that @Chris needs to fix.
     
  4. Attenwood

    Attenwood Avatar

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    Submitted for review. 37395
     
  5. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Avatar

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    Yey :)

    Also heard new resist mechanics are being applied to PVE/mob dmg.

    2x Great news.
     
  6. Xeen Dread

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    Yes the calculations were performed today (as well as a month ago for a single skill - SoS, didn't occur to me to check the others then), and it doesn't matter anyway because the part I'm referring to was unchanged by the DStance changes (MaxResist% Is the same slope-intercept as before, only the Resist value was changed to be scalar based on equipped gear)

    Defensive stance now provides some 30-odd resist at current level, equipment, and mechanics vs an exact 20 resist from the previous skill mechanics at same level.

    The math behind these calculations will greatly affect gameplay and complicate balancing if not corrected sooner rather than later.

    Everything provided here is under the assumption that the calculations are bugged/not working as intended based on the fact that I was told they are working as intended (meaning we were supposedly getting the full 'naked' benefit of the skill) and everything was merely a superficial display/tooltip error. Calculations and data given, damages received show that we are not receiving correctly applied benefits of these skills. Balancing may be require to reduce slope-intercept values of these skills as a result of correcting calculations. All corrections should work towards making actual armor-wearing tanks tankier while reducing cloth tankiness (assuming MaxResist becomes additive and magnitudes are reduced to compensate for over-tankiness) because clothies receive relatively large benefits from these skills that reduce the value of armor-based MaxResist%.

    Example:
    Plate MaxResist = 55% (actual value of full set)
    Chain MaxResist = 45% (actual value of full set)

    (Chain also benefits slightly on resist and greatly on fizzle chance)
    (Plate wins by a few points of avoidance, BUT without being able to cast some spells reliably, that's a wash)

    If the plate wearer and the chain wearer each have +50% from MaxResist% Skills factored in with current math... (easily achievable at around GM in each of the 3 skills in question)

    N=BaseMaxResist of skill in question (in this case a combined 50%)
    MaxResist = N*(100%-Plate55%)
    MR = N*45%
    MR = 50*.45
    MR = 22.5% Benefit from 50%MaxRes worth of skills

    Total MaxResist% = 22.5% + 55% = 77.5%

    N=BaseMaxResist of skill in question (in this case a combined 50%)
    MaxResist = N*(100%-Chain5%)
    MR = N*55%
    MR = 50*.55
    MR = 27.5% Benefit from 50%MaxRes worth of skills

    Total MaxResist% = 27.5% + 45% = 72.5%


    As you can see in the above comparison, Plate that looks like it has a base of 10% MaxResist higher than chain only ends up with 5% more max resist at the same skill lvls because of how the bonus of the skills is multiplied in instead of added.

    Continuing on to the Nth degree..

    If both a plate wearer and a chain wearer had +100% MaxResist from skills with current calculations...

    N=BaseMaxResist of skill in question (in this case a combined 100%)
    MaxResist = N*(100%-Plate55%)
    MR = N*45%
    MR =100*.45
    MR = 45% Benefit from 100%MaxRes worth of skills

    Total MaxResist% = 45% + 55% = 100%

    N=BaseMaxResist of skill in question (in this case a combined 100%)
    MaxResist = N*(100%-Chain5%)
    MR = N*55%
    MR =100*.55
    MR = 55% Benefit from 100%MaxRes worth of skills

    Total MaxResist% = 55% + 45% = 100%

    As you can see in this case, both the plate and chain wearers will have exactly the same MaxResist% at exactly the same skill levels in all 3 skills... even though their base armors differ.
    It is not Theoretically possible to achieve +100% maximum resist. The theoretical maximum bonus (from above, one value approximated) is 25 + 30 + 27.5 or +82.5% at 3x 200 skill lvls.

    Cloth Example (exact combined MaxResist from armor unknown)
    Let's say cloth is 10% MaxResist
    Deflection cannot be active in cloth, but a clothy can still gain 20% MaxResist from DStance at GM and 12.5% from SoS at GM quite easily.

    As a result of only having a base 10% MaxResist, cloth wearers will gain 90% benefit of the 2 above skills, totalling 11.25 + 18 = 29.25%. Add the base 10% and a cloth wearer now has 40% MaxResist vs physical dmg.... CLOTH! At theoretical maximums of 30% DStance and 25% SoS, a cloth wearer would have 10 + 55x.9 or 59.5% MaxResist, which is pretty freaking huge for wearing only cloth! Yes, their base resist will be lower as well as their avoidance, but that is besides the point. Fix one issue, then balance the others after fixing. Please don't balance before fixing and then have to go back and redo everything!

    Factoid: Wearing cloth (assuming 10% MaxResist from the armor) currently grants TWICE the benefit from Defensive Stance and Sympathy of stone vs wearing plate (90% benefit vs 45% benefit)! And it would do the same to deflection as well if that skill was not heavy-restricted.

    Factoid #2: Anything beyond the break point of +100% (if it were possible) would result in Chain actually having HIGHER MaxResist% than Plate... with the lightest armor having the highest MaxResist%

    Factoid #3: If a cloth wearer (assuming 10% MaxResist on set) were to exceed 100.00% bonus to MaxResist, they could then achieve the same exact 100% (100 x .9 =90, 90 + 10 =100) and continue gaining more MaxResist than any other armor type in the game with the bonuses only being reduced by 10%.... IF it was possible to get so much.

    The point is... The math is bad :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  7. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I'll look into these but I did do a fair amount of testing on these. I think we're done patching for R36 except for blockers though so won't be live for a few more weeks.
     
    Rada Torment and LoneStranger like this.