Leveling innates...

I don't think it is a bug but I do think it is something that needs addressed... In order to get the earth innates (very OP still) I knew I was going to actually "use" some earth spells this release and I thought "okay... I'll make earthquake a spell that I actually work towards getting to 100 so I can see how it fares against foes" so I'll start with earth fist, then work upwards unlocking all of the earth spells until I can start leveling earthquake...

However... little did I know that after leveling stone fist to 10, I could start unlocking the earth innates and then never use another earth spell and the earth innates would just continue leveling towards 100. I think the earth innates should be limited to someone that spent their gaming experience working towards earth spell mastery and not someone who spent 20 minutes leveling stone fist to 10.

Also, can we please get the summoning skills out of the top spot in each field? It is a bit repetitive and the skills aren't really different from skill to skill... just the color of monster you can happen to summon. Summoning to me should be a separate field and possibly earthquake should be the top spot for the earth skills and fire field/fire storm should be the top spot for the fire skills, maybe lightning storm/hurricane/tornado for air, etc? It would make getting to that top skill in each field and grandmastering it more special.

 

Agreed. That one is a little perplexing as well, considering how most of the innates in the other skill trees operate.

 

Also surprised that any innate enable auto-levels. Finding myself getting annoyed when I forget to toggle the fist-type skills to not level after reaching 10.

 

i purposely went down this road to test it and don't see any issues with it, if its what you need for your build you will take it, otherwise you will not, there seems to be a misconception that these earth innates in particularly are over powered, they are not, i havn't used them since like r13 and have faired well by my standards, in both pve and pvp.

 

Even if they're not mandatory, i don't feel it's right for an innate skill to raise by using completely unrelated actions. Specially talking about innates from the Magic trees. Magic cannot be related to anything since it's the wielding of powers beyond what's natural, so magic innates leveling up by using the skills of that tree is what seems right to me, in the same way i need to use moon spells to level up moon worshipper.

Someone might say "earth innates are about damage resistance, so i should exercise it as i receive damage" but the way i see it, Earth innates are not something that develops naturally; they're an adaptation of your body because of the use of earth magic.

Regarding the rest of innates... While i was writing this i've been using the skills in my off combat bar, and raised heavy lifter by using Healing touch, Purify, Vanish and Night Vision, and weapon preservation also went up a bit. What's the logic behind that? i wasn't using my weapon nor i was exercising strength... In my opinion that's the kind of reasoning this system needs to bring its balance a step further, because overpowered or not, pasive perks are the most powerful kind of abilities a character can get (they're always active).

 

the earth innates working the way they do are no different from say the heavy armor innates that go up just because your wearing armoring, it's all or none, remember these passive increases also include things like str dex and int, there tie to active glyphs is no different than the earth innates, or heavy armor innates, lets take strength for example. if you swing a sword and use str, you str goes up, your heavy armor str goes up and your earth innate str goes up and remember, the total increase is spilt between the 3.

 

I understand how it works from the system perspective, and the current way it works is exactly what i'm against. I can't feel earth innates as the same as wearing armor because the former is a supernatural effect and the latter is a mundane effect. You wield your sword and raise strength, and by doing so while wearing a heavy armor you raise your heavy armor inates, that's cool. But i can't give a proper explanation of why my flesh becomes unnaturally tough by swinging my sword... what makes sense is to link that unnatural effect to the unnatural actions.

To me current approach is as logical as saying "i took poison once, now i become poison resistant every time i drink water because i'm exercising my digestive system" or "i was burnt once, now i became fire resistant everytime i pinch myself because my flesh is suffering", and because of that i don't like it. But everyone perceives magic in his own way, so i'm pretty sure other people may show up with compelling arguments of why earth innates shoud rise by using mundane actions.. these are just mine, as good as everyone else's

 

as you said, its supernatural, who's to say it shouldn't work like a mundane effect? I see it in one of two ways, one, use of the earth(stone fist) or two, become one with the earth(attuenement with earth)

this doesn't even take in to consideration the game effects, what applies to one must apply to all or the game mechanics will become unbalanced, not to mention the fact that i really dont want to see a bunch of people standing around stone fisting themselves to no end just for the innates .....

 

Agreed... If I put aside the attempts to rationalize why the skill increases for a minute.

Under the current system those two skills are incredibly unbalanced. They increase faster than any other innate skill in the game.

My character has "60" and "53" in them respectively.​

For comparison the same character has only "32" in "Train Strength", and "39" in "Armor Preservation" which were unlocked earlier.​

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Personally, I feel those skills should operate in the same manner as the other magic schools (where they only increase if you use a skill in that school).

Otherwise, the two skills will simply be picked up by everyone, lacking a sufficient offset to account for their obvious benefit.

 

It's just a matter of perspectives, you have yours i have mine... i don't think of a better way to become one with the earth than using earth skills, the others shouldn't work from my point of view... you think they should, and that's right as well. It's just matter of how every person sees magic.

From a game perspective i do think that if you want to earn the earth innates you should use them, or gather a bunch of people so you can stone fist (i lol'd really hard at that) each other because even if they're not overpower, i do think they're too accessible for the bonus they give. But once again, matter of perspective

Stone fisting sessions ftw! (still Loling at that)

 

yeah, i'm not saying ya'll dont have good points i've just tried looking at it from the other side of the fence and dont see the issue, i think some of the skew may be coming from the left over pool of points from last release that i deleted, my earth innates have been on pair with the rest of my innates. i've tried to level things up naturally based on what i'm using so i also likely have a lot of stuff unlocked that others dont. well, i spammed purify to raise it but that was mostly to see how broken it really was lol.

 

back to stone fisting!

 

I look like a hypocondriac wizard when i walk around Ardoris so i feel you healing touch also raises without effectively healing you in the same way purify raises without having any adverse effect (at least not any that's not imaginary) and by the way both raises Life power in the process.

I agree that the experience pool we had because of the soft wipe has something to do, but we should keep an eye of that kind of thing regardless of that, because the best way of being a decent adventurer upon a real start will be to do some starter quests and then train at home alone or with your gustball team (or stone fisting club).

I was writing this... clicked on new messages and almost choke laughing. From now on close combat (fist) mages in Sota will never be the same to me.

 

stonefist club only has one rule, no talking abouting stonefist club ....