Make experience gain speed not dependent on pool size.

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by Tahru, Sep 24, 2021.

  1. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

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    The problem with your question is your brain has been assimilated to the exp pool thinking, thus you are in the handful of people I talked about in the OP. Don't misunderstand, it is not an insult. I am simply saying you have been acclimated to the game and figured out how to rationalize it and make it work for you. That is cool. But an normal player, would have never built the pool in the first place and would not understand why anyone would. And they should not have to either. So now that you have this pool, you feel that you should have an advantage. That is the game's fault for leading you that way. But the change I asked for does not change that for you. You can still gain at the same rate.

    Edit: You do still actually have in an advantage simply because you have the exp to spend right now. That would be most obvious on a training dummy for example. But also, skills don't earn exp as fast as they consume them when leveling. So even in normal "equal" game play there is a fair and earned advantage.

    And when you talk about time, be very careful. Don't pretend like you don't spend your time prioritized toward the highest exp gain. It makes sense if you are thinking about exp pools. But that does not mean you would spend more time than a normal player, because normal players would prioritize zones based on fun or crafting materials. It is highly likely a normal player would spend more time.

    And still I ask, what is the problem with asking for a change that does not harm anyone nor change their game play and makes the game better?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
  2. Adam Crow

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    Oh I'm very much insulted unless you can explain in more detail what you're taking about. Mostly because I feel like you just aren't listening to me. Don't ever assume anything about my brain, that's a complete waste of time haha.
     
  3. Tahru

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    I think our talk is over. I tried to be polite and I was sincere. But I don't have any intent on a pissing contest. Let me just bow to you and thank you for your meaningful input sir. Cheers!
     
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  4. Asclepius

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    I think it's a bit of a non-argument and a zero-sum game. I always thought that ACTIVE adventuring skills would get x% (some small number) of the pool applied when used. Obviously, x% of 300 million is bigger that x% of 10K - the skill will grow much faster. How you handle that is a matter of preference. You can spend points as you earn them and have the skill crawl upwards, or you can deny yourself the immediate gratification and turn everything off until you get a huge total. That is my preference - I just moved Eagle Eye from 140 to 150. Spent LOTS of time accumulating 300 million. then opened it up. With a potion of guidance it's (x% of 300 million x3). Of course the last bit is slow - you're down to maybe 30k by then, but it does happen fairly quickly and it's quite gratifying. And I never use a training dummy - AFAIK they don't give any XP. Burn your XP while in actual combat - at the end of the day you'll probably have 20-30K still in kitty, and you can start again.
    Short story - do it the way you want to - I don't thing it makes much difference.
     
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  5. FBohler

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    In this point I think we agree.
    I would prefer a system in which the Adv. XP pool was hidden and all XP earned in combat was poured into the skills you used, resulting in an empty pool after you stop fighting, making training dummies useless.

    The problem is: I think it may be too late for such a big change.
     
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  6. Violet Ronso

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    Okay, I think there are 2 things that should be explained a little better here.

    1. You are not rewarded for building a big pool of experience and then spending it at a dummy, you spend a % of your pooled exp each time a skill can be trained, with diminishing returns. It also is dependent on your skills level, so a lv1 skill will consume 10-20 point of experience meanwhile a lv100 skill could consume 25k exp. So even if your pool is bigger, you still hit one of those 2 caps at some point, hurting you in the long run, because you are deep into the soft caps.

    2. Since experience used is dependant on your skill levels as well, in the early stages of the game where you are training multiple skills, you are draining your pool much faster, which teaches you to manage your training if you want things to go faster.

    Like others have stated, if you spend 10 hours gathering the experience needed to get the level you want, you will then need to spend an hour or 2 at the dummy, not gaining any experience at all. Now if you manage your training correctly, as the game attempted to teach you in your early days, you will already be 80% of the way to your goal level within those 10 hours of exp accumulation. You then have a choice of spending the next 20 minutes at a dummy, or keep on hunting, and get the level while gaining even more experience.

    These two things are fact. Now let me list you the disadvantages of the method you are suggesting @Tahru :

    1. If you set the drain number low enough for new players, the players who are now in their 160s+ will require years just to drain the exp for the next level.
    2. If you set the drain number high enough for most vets, low level players will never have a pool higher than 0 because the drain will happen too fast, this will push them to want to use a dummy with locked skills. Meanwhile the guys that are way past the average, once again, will take too long to level, making things no fun for them.


    The reason it is a % right now is because it adapts to the players situation, the player gaining 13m exp per hour or more and the player who can gain about 100k exp an hour, they are not in the same boat at all, and you can't pick a flat number that will work for them.

    I think the issue you have Tahru is between the very true fact that having a bigger pool means more of it is used, but the misconception that this will take less time this way, it will not, because like many others said, if you are spending while you gain, once you finished gaining, you have much less to spend, thus less time required to spend it.

    If you need 300m exp for a lvl but spent 150m while gaining it, you only have 150m left to spend, at the rate of 150m and dropping, meanwhile if you gather 300m exp before spending, once you spend 150m exp, you will be at exactly the same spot as player 1 was, but 150m exp spent later. You won't spend faster anymore, because now you have a pool of 150m, but you did spend less time spending your first 150m than you will your 2nd, but you will still have spent time spending the first 150m that others will have spend while gaining it, so they won time over you in the final result.
     
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  7. Barugon

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    But things don't go faster. You merely trade other skills not gaining at all in order to get one up quickly, but your progress overall is the same.
     
  8. Violet Ronso

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    Your right, explained myself poorly. If you want "specific skills" to train faster is what I meant
     
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  9. grendal1971

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    Well this was informative, thank you Violet Ronso for the break down.
     
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  10. Adam Crow

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    :eek: <----- that was my face after I just re-read this convo. @Tahru I have a track record of getting riled up when I've been drinking and coming on these forums and acting like a jerk. While I still agree with the points I was trying to make, I wanted to apologize for my condescending know-it-all attitude and the aggressiveness in my posts. I wasnt in the right state of mind to be discussing anything on here. I always have respected your opinions and thoughts over the years, I hope there are no hard feelings!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
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  11. FBohler

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    Easy on the Satyr Spirits buddy! :D
     
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  12. Tirrag

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    overall i think this has been an interesting read thank you @Tahru and contributors. one thing that i dont believe is touched on here is the frequency that a skill is used. some skills you would like to train are not attack skills and are not used at the same frequency that you would if just training. for example, if i wanted to train a buff like defensive stance it would take me a lot longer to train it during combat because of how often it is used. if a pool of XP is saved up and a focused training session is done where the amount of times defensive stance is used in a given timespan is significantly increased, i can train it faster. it might be interesting to say, train a buff type of skill (ie something that has a time allocated to it) each tick of the skill or every X seconds the skill is active vs just when it is cast.
     
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  13. Tahru

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    You are not alone my friend. I have been getting better at avoiding social interactions online while drinking, but every once in a while I manage to embarrass myself as I did this time.
     
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  14. Elwyn

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    Has it been mentioned that the pool size bonus has a cap? I vaguely recall it was like beyond 4M or so pool size there's no further bonus. These days 4M is a pittance. It's also only a bonus on how much XP is consumed per "event", meaning you need less events, such as when the cost of consumables matters. You don't get free XP from it.

    The main reason to pool is so you don't have to think about or watch whichever skill you are leveling, or you can decide later what you want to level. Or you can change your mind half-way. It also lets you more easily do the math to know how much more you need. You might also want to level something which is less convenient to use while in an XP grind party. Another reason is that you might not have a GM mentoring bonus available (also reducing the needed events) at the time you are getting the XP.
     
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  15. devilronin

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    how about the unthinkable... and removing the pooled experience altogether, its just a form of time gating