Mine Axe... "cuts it"

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by Skathi Lyn Oks, Mar 15, 2016.

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  1. Skathi Lyn Oks

    Skathi Lyn Oks Avatar

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    Hail adventurers!
    Lords, ladies and pecks,
    Tis' my observation that the axe is listed as a bludgeon weapon. Since when?! Even in medieval times it mayve been sought as one, but has always been used to CUT grievous wounds! Is this an over sight? I hope so.
    And in hopes that it will be listed in the future as a cutting weapon. I didnt know where'st else to post this...observation. Thankye for thy time ;)
    Farewell, good fortune to thee.
     
  2. mikeaw1101

    mikeaw1101 Avatar

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    In a lot of old school 80s/90s crpg's axes were classified as cutting/slicing damage as per the old D&D physical damage types (cutting/slicing, piercing, and bludgeon). But many recent games do also seem to list axes as bashing only? It would be interesting to see where and why this trend started.
     
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  3. Lord Dreamo

    Lord Dreamo Avatar

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    I think it has more to do with the style of combat used with the weapon. Fighting with an axe would be similar to using a mace compared to fighting with a sword or dagger.
     
  4. Skathi Lyn Oks

    Skathi Lyn Oks Avatar

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    Ive always liked axes for their effectiveness as a tool and as a weapon. They, "cut to the chase". SotA is the first time Ive ere' heard them being used as a bludgeon. o_O

    In UO they were listed as a swordmanship skill. (cutting)
     
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  5. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Axes may not be 'blunt' but like bludgeons they are impact weapons. They do not cut.. they chop.

    While you're making observations observe the following.

    SotA does not have different slash, piece and blunt damage types. It has physical damage only.

    Skills are set up not based on damage type but on how a weapon is actually wielded.

    Axes, have much more in common with bludgeon style weapons and almost nothing in common with swords. As such, axes are wielded in the same manner as a mace or hammer. They are never wielded the same way as a blade because they cannot be.

    How then does it make the slightest bit of sense to wield an axe using a skillset meant for an entirely different class of weapon?

    Axes are built, weighted and used the same way as a mace or hammer. So that skill is the closest there is. So that is the skill that is used.
     
  6. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Actually rather than rehashing the subject..

    Axes are now Bludgeons

    Thread sparked a 15 page back and forth with some of the harder to convince folks but the whole argument is there. If you're still not convinced well.. I don't know what else to say.
     
  7. agra

    agra Avatar

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    Yep. And in D&D, they're slashing. Yet another negative distinction, imo, for SotA, compared to every other classic RPG ever made.
    Conversely, Pantheon does have slashing, piercing, and bludgeon damage types affecting different creature types. If Shroud ever adds such a feature, this distinction is going to cause yet another problem. Truly unfortunate. :(
     
  8. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    You make a good argument, Bowen - but an Axe (outside perhaps a couple of games) has never been classified as a "Bludgeon" type weapon.

    Every dictionary and reference I can find lists a "Bludgeon" weapon as some variation of: "A short heavy club, usually of wood, that is thicker or loaded at one end."

    Every dictionary and reference I can find lists the verb "Bludgeon" as some variation of: "To hit with a heavy club or similar blunt instrument."

    Granted, it is wielded as a mace would be - but that has never been listed as a reason to classify an Axe as a Bludgeon.

    Whether or not it is kept as a "Bludgeon" matters little to me. But I'll never agree with any rational that associates an Axe with Bludgeons.

    The noun and the verb have been around for a very long time - and they've never included a bladed Axe.

    I respectfully disagree.......... ;)

    Cambridge Dictionary Online
    Wikipedia
    Merriam-Webster
    The Free Dictionary
    Dictionary
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
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  9. Lord Dreamo

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    Now that I think about it... I don't even think I've ever seen someone use an axe in SOTA other than to chop down a tree.

    Or any other bludgeon weapon for that matter.
     
  10. Skathi Lyn Oks

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    If the game is skill base and not weapon type, then why the DISTINCTION in their description? Bludgeon, blade etc. Respectfully I dont think youre opinion is a determining factor. And a mace has always been seen as bludgeon, axe as slash or even pierce, to penetrate armor, where a mace has been to break the armor.
    -This game is heralded as "UO2". (New Britannia). And I just noticed during game play that axes are bludgeon.z
    Have you played UO? My point being in reference to UO. AND that Ive not heard of an axe being bludgeon in any game prior. Ive played most all of the mmorpg after UO pioneered the genre.
    I suspect, SUSPECT, that this was an ongoing dis...cussion in the development of THIS game.
     
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  11. mikeaw1101

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    Maybe they went with bludgeoning since that's how LARP guys/gals use axes to fight, i.e. styrofoam padded or plastic 'wiffle' axes to bash people with - since they're obviously not going to chop at someone with a real axe... :eek: And as we know of course, LB is a well-renowned LARPer... Well, either way it just seems counterintuitive for an axe to be classified as a blunt weapon, lol.
     
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  12. Lord Dreamo

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    If you think an axe is going to pierce armor more than it would dent it or crush it... you have a very weird axe.
     
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  13. Lord Dreamo

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    Either way, it's already been explained. It's based on fighting style. Unless you want to be stabbing with your axe... many games actually do that and it drives me nuts.

    I don't think you can give a swordsman an axe and expect he will fight just as well with it. But I imagine if you swapped a soldier's mace with an axe they would get along just fine.
     
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  14. Skathi Lyn Oks

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    Can you quote the "authoritative" explanation?
    And are you trying to drown my OP in indirect text? Im not here, in the game at this stage, to discuss it. But to point out possible flaws.
     
  15. Leostorm

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  16. Skathi Lyn Oks

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  17. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Definition of a bludgeon doesn't make an axe a sword. Nor is it bladed just because it has an edge. Because other's got it wrong also is not a compelling argument for doing the same wrong things here.
     
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  18. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Different weapon types are wielded differently, thus different skill. As I've started in previous discussions, the naming of the skills are unfortunate but it is what it is. In terms of actual use, things belong with the skill that is most relevant to that use.

    Penetrating armor and breaking armor are not dissimilar.

    This is neither UO nor UO2 and has never been billed as such by Portalarium.

    Because "they did it" is not a reason to also do something the same way. Especially if it's screwed up. I've said quite regularly axes need their own skill.. but barring that their current association is the best thing to accurate we can get. This is about usage, not damage type. Which again, doesn't exist in SotA.

    If you read the link I posted you'd see this discussion was quite a long time ago and you're the first to bring it back up in all that time.
     
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  19. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Axes deserve their own skill.. but they are much closer to blunts than they will ever be to blades.
     
  20. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Can you do the same? People with real life experience with axes and swords have said the current set up makes more sense. (See the link I posted).. but what established "authority" is there that you would accept?
     
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