Moving everything around and Interactivy

Okay, I wasn't sure in which subforums to post about this topic... so if moderators feels another one is most appropriate, feel free to move it around.

So, an obvious and some would say capital point of Ultima was its interactivity - and there is no doubt SOTA aims to offer plenty of this.

One aspect I would have to wonder though, is the abilety to move everything around.

One of the things that made Ultima VII, VIII, IX and Online unique was their abilety to let the players move pretty much anything in the game through a simple drag'n drop interface. It was intuitive, and it's pretty much in many aspects what allowed to push the virtual interactive world aspect, in a way that has rarely ever been seen since (indeed I think Bethesda's games allows this to some degree nowadays).

So it's really one of my big questions regarding SOTA. I mean from a technical standpoints, this looks doable (ie. look at when you put the chair inside your house). But for instance... look at those skulls in the dungeon, they react nice enough when you run into them... but you could you just drag them around if you wished ? And what of the items you can take like that Shield? Could you just move it around witout taking it ?

I know that personally this is the kind of stuff that made the difference, and would make SOTA more immersive.

Now I realize their might be some issues in multiplayer on account of "What happens if player X drops an item there?" (and never mind how Ultima fans always got creative about how to use that interactivity to break the game) That was rather done in UO as I recall... but with SOTA having a more instanced approach due on how the game scales with your friends and other players this might be an issue.

And this makes me fear that this might lead to not have this kind of interaction implemented because of the multiplayer, or only in specific areas (such as player houses), and I feel it would be a shame. Of course I don't know about technical limitations, or if this an aspect that could be scalable depending of how you play the game (ie. fully allowed in single player offline or online, limited in fullblown multiplayer), but I was wondering what other players felt about this issues and what is the exact stance about that form of interactivity ingame at this point in time.

-Sergorn

 

This is a really excellent thread; thanks for posting it. Also, it's definitely hard to know where to place this as it is a general discussion about game features. I'll see what FireLotus has to say.

 

Those skulls on the dungeon floor, I would love if you could take them and place them wherever you liked, such as decorations for your house. I would not mind if you had to actually pick them up before trying to place them somewhere, I think that is how UO handled it as well. From what I have heard so far, you will be able to drop any item anywhere in the world, but unless it is in your own house it will deteriorate after some time. It sounds like you'd be able to take all those body parts you found and lay them out by the bank in a fun design again .

Grabbing the shield and moving it Without picking it up is less important in my opinion, but from the looks of it you should be able to take it then put it down anywhere you wanted but it would then disappear after a while.

 

You make goods points.

I would argue however that this is an important aspect because this is really what made Ultima unique to this day.

A lot of games and RPGs don't even bother with interactivity nowadays, and even those that do like the Gothic series rarely bother giving you a chance to move things around. And really should SOTA allow this... well it would blow away the competition, and the players. It'd the kind of detail that you might not notice while playing but just considerably improve your experience.

And... I don't know how to put it, but Lord British games have always been about pushing things forward and breaking new grounds. Even the oft-maligned Ultima IX, for all its flaws and shortcomins brought a lot of new things to the table and indeed offer things that even to this day are still lacking in many RPGs. And with SOTA serving as a spiritual sequel to the Ultima games... somehow if the game didn't offer this amount of interactivity by moving things arounds, this would feel like a stepback.

Now I realized there are issues this can cause (ie. Bread Bridges in Ultima IX ) and ways to circunvent this in online mode would definitly be needed (dropped item deteriorating on flour seems a good idea, perhaps there could be something similar if you move things arounds, like the area reseting after a while ?), but I'd argue in a "worst case" scenario... offering the possibility in offline solo, and maybe even online solo would something fans would love. Also this could really bring more mechanics in term of gameplay and possibilities (rememebr how U7 sometimes required you to create stairs from crates or some such? Thing about the possibilities here).

Granted SOTA is already a huge project... but I'd beg the team to keep this in mind, and perhaps if this can't happen for Forsaken Virtues, it could happens with Episode 2.

I'd also say that if the game push and manages to offer the same level of interactivity Ultima VII did 21 years ago... It'd create an expericne as revolutionnary as that game was back.

-Sergorn

 

Playing golf with a warhammer and skulls...will there be a 'breakdown' limit, so objects degrade into broken scattered bits? If so, will there be a 'repair' skill which might play into a later quest line (fix the McGuffin to be able to replace the Seal on the Gate to Doom)?

 

To the barricades !
Well if you can move anything anywhere then lets block the mobs/players on the other side of our chairs , carts and tables and pin cushion em
I'm all for a fully interactive world and it would be fab but I'm just pointing out one use that could be seen as good or bad . I guess that all depends on your point of view or whatever side of the barricade you are on I suppose

For me though, the more stuff we can do the better .

 

I think a lot of these possibles issues come from the fact it's online multiplayer realy. I mean : take the exemple of blocking monsters with a handmade barricades - this would be an awesome technique in single player... but this could lead to griefing and annoyance in multiplayer. Difficult balance to reach I guess, but I guess this is my main underlying fear about SOTA... that in the end the game can't do everything it could in what I'd call "traditionnal" Ultima aspect, because of multiplayers limitations that have to be taken into account.

-Sergorn

 

Yeh sadly I think you are right Sergorn, its the endless warped minds of us humans that bugger these things up. Though I just thought if we can set fire to anything in game, then that barricade just became the defenders funeral pyre . Well if they are conveniently stood on top of it anyway .

 

Here's my idea: If you're in an area where there are no NPCs, then you can get away with moving things without it triggering a response, but I should think it should reset when the instance is closed and reopened. And like in the original Ultimas, moving things without picking them up isn't stealing, but picking it up and dropping it counts as theft and gets you into trouble.

So lets take this idea of interactivity to the next level: Lets say every NPC feels 'responsible' for the position of the objects in the game world around it, like within its house or store for instance. Now if a player moves something that the NPC is responsible for it might yell at him, then walk over and move it back within a certain amount of time..

So if you're looking under something for a hidden ladder, you may have to wait for the NPC to go to lunch or something, so you can move it without upsetting him..

You're right, this feels like very traditional Ultima simulation, and I hope to see it implemented in SotA.

 

The problem in UO with item barricades was the ability to carry almost unlimited stuff in your backpack, a carpenter could carry enough crates to build a castle using the crates as bricks. I saw one time one of those castles made with crates and it was really impressive. So just limiting items a character can carry to a reasonable number/weight would help.,Ultima players used to block monsters with crates placed on the ground but, monsters learned very quick to chop!! boxes .

One of the goals of this game Im expecting to be so great is world interactivity, I played Ultima IX and I loved the way you just could pickup any item and place anywhere. I took as home a nice house in the village and expent hours and hours moving stuff around just to decorate it, and I had a lot of fun doing that. The goal of a game developer should be creating world interactive systems and let the player freedom to decide how he want to use them. This way the players themselves may create new game features without the need of game developers. !BAGBALL! anyone? Bagball game was created by players just using world interactivity mechanics. Can you imagine yourself playing some kind of skull-soccer with your friends in a 3D world ?


Being this game based on comunity I would espect even more, pushing world interactivity to the next level ,some kind of crowd + crafting + world interactivity, allowing people to participate in collaborative tasks like for example, making a bridge, or closing with rocks a hole opened by dark forces so they cant enter our world, or maybe building city walls....., tasks that would last weeks or months to be achieved.


In most of the actual 3D Games you cant even !!!!OPEN A SIMPLE DOOR!!!! , most 3D art is just art, decoration.