Natural 20 - It's Dead.

Hearing Richard, Tracy and Chris talk about SotA and combat - bringing back adventure and removing the IN YOUR FACE Accounting made me realize how disenchanted I've become with modern MMO's. It HAS become a job, and it has taken away the feeling of just sitting down and playing an adventure.

It's now about Character Builds, Min/Max'ing and Completing Daily Achievements.

What ever happened to just going on an Adventure because it was fun? The feeling of surprise when you encountered something you did not expect - the feeling of thinking on your feet, getting caught off guard, or elation over a single swing kill?

The quality of an item should matter, but really I want my skill to be about ME and not my sword! A sword is sword - in the hands of Master it's deadly, but the same sword to a whelp might as well be a fire poker.

Sure it's a movie, but think of Kevin Costner in Tin Cup - he played golf with a rake, a hoe and shovel - and won. If you have the skill, you are good no matter what. The tool just makes it better.

So I say, Bring on the removal of the GUI, and hit point bars and scrolling numbers! I'm an adventurer not an accountant (Brilliant Words Tracy!) Leave some wonder to the world - don't show us everything and surprise us now again with things we don't expect! Attack "logs" are for the weak. Fighting is an art form , it does not have to be only science and math.

Let me once again bask in the glory of skillful single swing on prone Orc that severs it's head from it's body and makes me feel like I actually accomplished something great.

It's a game. F - U - N

(just as a side note, my post was more about the return of fun, secrets of combat, and not revealing everything then it was about single shot kills - but maybe...once in a while..)

 

Which you you want? A game based on skill or a game based on RNG?

I'm not against building some RNG into a simulation but the one shot kill effect pretty much removes skill entirely.

 

Couldn't agree more Aartemis! I believe in the skill based system where you get better at using a weapon or spell with use, not automatically with levels. I have to think long and hard to remember a time when I played a game for the actual fun of playing. The games I have participated in for the last decade are increasingly about "must do's". It feels like work to me, not a game. It is going to be so refreshing, to experience spontaneous adventure again. Going to a dungeon for example, not for a specific item or reputation or for levels... but to explore and see whatever comes your way. I hope parts of the game world will be open and not zoned in, so you have a sense of a persistent world and not always knowing what might happen or who you will run into. That is what I am hoping Shroud of the Avatar will bring back... and it couldn't happen soon enough.

 

I never calculated any char in any game. That's the reason why I never have been very successful - so would other players have said. But success for me never has been to get the best weapons, the best armor and to beat the strongest enemies. When I go outside the town or into a dungeon, I often die because I'm not prepared. But I always have fun, because I don't fear death and I enjoy the insecurity. So I'm with you, I don't need calculations but fun.

 

Fighting 20 Orcs does it REALLY matter if you drop a couple with a single swing?

And as I said, it's more about the mystery then a single shot kill. Nobody wants a full random system.

The point i'm trying to make is that with the internet, wiki's, databases and combat logs - it's not even about skill anymore. It's databases, webpages, and endless raids for the ultimate loot (and gobs of stuff nobody wants anymore).

I'm just an old fart who misses the days when I could have fun just playing. I don't want to look stuff up on a wiki, and I don't want to be told I can't go on an adventure because my gear is gold instead of purple!

I'm not saying that behind the scenes, the system is not complex (ie not a bunch of random's)

However, There is something to be said about VISUAL simplicity, the art of Wonder and just experiencing the adventure presented to you.

 

I certainly don't want to see a "best" class or build. I don't really want to see a gear or "level" gap.

Having certain skills or gear may provide a tactical advantage. e.g. ranged weapons are good from range, if I spend my whole career being good with a bow I'm probably not as good with a sword as someone focusing on that.

I'm OK with a certain about of hits and crits being simulated. Although I do like a system with lets me target with the mouse and possibly even target a body part. (e.g. if the controls looked something like neverwinter) I don't actually want my screen jerking around to simulate wind, although that may be enjoyable to some.

I'd love to see opponents actually get weakened so you can switch to a more aggressive fighting style. So you're not one shotting the orc, but once you see that he's too weak to really block your blows, you can go for the all-in swing. (Just hope he's not faking it.)

 

I'm not for the one shot kill either. UFC 3 for playstation and xbox had a one hit KO (it is very rare though). It might be realistic because one hit KOs happen in real life, and so do one hit kills.

Roleplaying has a strong element of realism which makes it interesting. That said though, role playing the imaginary role of a hero or anti-hero implies a sense of being able to do something the average person cannot do.

Imagine if Jason Bourne got shot in the head as he was running through the city evading agents. That sort of wrecks the film. Or if James Bond were to just randomly get killed by stray gun fire. If either of those characters were ever going to die in a movie it would be at the end in some dramatic way saving the world or something. And then they still would end up escaping Think last Dark Knight movie.

So these are my reasons for saying no one hit kill in PvP.
(unless of course the guy is a totally new character going up against a badass)

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=badass

 

I'm sick of calculating the effectiveness of your skill build and gear and adjusting those decimals to fit the ultimate build that can out-dps other builds... it's a job, not fun, I'm hoping SoTA will be different.

The sense of fun, excitement and adventuring is what I miss in games nowadays the most! This latest Dev chat was awesome. It also made me think like OP.

 

I agree with the OP in general. I think the emphasis on stats, min/maxing, and the dreaded log parsers have really takend MMOs to a different direction. I liked Meridian59's system of giving you text clues and audio clues as to how much damage you were doing. Monsters went from "slightly injured" to "clearly injured" all the way to "weak and near death" and your swings would give you indication if you're using the right enchantment against the monster by telling you the monster staggers from the hit. You never knew if your hit did 7 damage or 8 damage...you never really cared either.

The key to making this type of game successful is a really good feedback system to replace the numerical feedback system. There is also a need to make it clear to players which weapon will perform better for them. We don't want players to mistakenly switch equipment to something inferior because they didn't understand the hidden stats between a Longsword and a Sabre. I'd like to see an escalating quality of material...Bronze is weaker than Iron which is weaker than Steel. So you know that your Iron Longsword would be an upgrade from your Bronze Sabre, without having to know that the upgrade includes +10dps, +2% critical hit, +1% parry bonuses. Leave the numbers behind the scenes, but make sure we know enough to make wise decisions.

 

I'd love it if the "combat log" was somehow inaccessible to players. It has to exist somewhere, but parsers really are the bane of MMO's. Having someone post your combat performance after a big group fight and try to show you with numbers that you aren't playing the video game correctly sucks the fun out faster than a surprise IRS audit. At the same time, I am someone who ENJOYS sitting around examining abilities, enchants, bonuses, and gear lists trying to find hidden gems. I remember in early years of my MMO career playing for hours just testing my powers to find little tricks I could do that worked better, and taking joy in the results of my efforts. In later years, as a raid leader, having a player (a valued player who raided well and was fun to talk to) start in on stat comparisons and how ( not so gifted real world friend of mine) was letting the raid down, here is his dps, here is him using the wrong power... well, lets just say I was cursing the combat log that night. And of course, in response to raiding guilds that used the math=win method of gaming, the monsters had to be made tougher, the learning curve steeper. So eventually, anyone who didn't do that was NOT going to face the top end endgame. And when the top end stuff was dropping amazing gear, elegant mounts, special graphics, cool titles... how could people NOT want to emulate the parsers? I had a damage meter, a threat meter, a combat log parser, and a death count running on all major raid fights, boss or otherwise, just to keep track of my 24 fellow players. And yeah, when you realize that this dude over here is putting out 1/4 of the damage of everyone else, and dies every fight, the temptation to just kick him and do the rest of it a man short is there. That sucks.

Parsers are the devil.