New NPC Conversation Window - Feedback

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lord_Darkmoon, Jan 14, 2017.

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  1. Gix

    Gix Avatar

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    Yep. This method is actually quite popular in the Japanese scene (GW is highly influenced by asian designs)... sometimes they don't even bother with backgrounds and just overlay it on top of the game.

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    And then you have similar things in the US:
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. yarnevk

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    W hile that fade to background approach makes for a nice face off composition it takes you out of the world. Not workable at all in PVP and even in PVE if I am in online modes and talking to the barkeep, I want to look around and see if anyone I know walks into the tavern. So controlling the background makes for a nice screen composition, it really does not work in a more open-world sandboxy game that SOTA is. That is why Skyrim is the better model, it is not a railroad game where they can just pause the world to take you to the cutscreen. Of course with the scene unaware scripting that can lead to some hilarious scenes of people talking about someone behind their back as they are standing right there.

    That is why the dialogue window transparent background works best, it keeps the player immersed in the world - they can more easily see past the window and feel more like it is speech synthesis/recognition holodeck because they are still in the scene.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
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  3. Sir Cabirus

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    Yes that's GW2. And it is just a cut scene - without any possibility of interaction. It is not a communication window.
     
  4. Vladamir Begemot

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    Well someone is so close. :) Maybe show @oneandonly the picture of the rule of threes, hopefully it's a quick adjustment.
     
  5. Vladamir Begemot

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    Just to be clear, I'm in no way campaigning against transparency, or a players right to put the UI where they like, or to be in first person when they talk. Just campaigning for some tweaks.
     
  6. Dragonhart

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    my small suggestion , rather than right/left justification, or complicated spacing coding, perhaps a simple tab indent to the NPC reply would enhance readability.
    I also vote for vertical scroll over the horizontal bar.
     
  7. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Hey, I was just responding to GreyFox who said something along those lines ;)

    Actually I am ok with the new conversation UI. A little spacing so that the text is easier to read and I would be happy.
    As for a fancy border and another background - sure if it would be possible I would be all for it. But I think the spacing alone would really help.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
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  8. GrayFog

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    Think you missunderstood my stuff about MMO.
    The way @Vladamir Begemot described it was that he always wanted a set/fixed camera positioning etc.
    Kinda would suck in an MMO if the NPC walks out of your screen because another player talks to him from an further distance.
    Just 1 example, dunno how else to explain, but doesn't really matter now anyway :p

    But yeah, Skyrim/ESO is the most easiest way to do it, even for an MMO :p
     
  9. Gix

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    I'm actually saying that modern MMOs can phase NPCs on a per-client basis. Meaning if someone else talks to it from a distance, that player gets his own copy of that NPC where it can turn around and moves towards him.

    As far as I can tell, the client only asks the server if it can enter in conversation and then handles the rest locally if he server gives it the "okay". After conversation, the client just needs to do a transition between where his local copy of that NPC is in relation to where it really is on the server.

    So it never looks weird for you.
     
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  10. Vladamir Begemot

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    No, that's not what I was describing at all. Let me copy/paste what I said a couple messages above, then clarify that I've long since backed up to just working within their already existing system.

    Just to be clear, I'm in no way campaigning against transparency, or a players right to put the UI where they like, or to be in first person when they talk. Just campaigning for some tweaks.

    Trying to be understood:

    • I'm all for a dynamic camera system, but @Lum the Mad said the early zoomed in angles were impossible.
    • Because they are impossible, I went through and put my UI mockup (but it could have even been the chat box UI,) on a whole bunch of screens I made from screenshots. I wanted to see if a not tiny UI would be able to fit with the current system. I'm working with Port's camera angles, literally just doing usability testing here.
      • No big UI is possible
      • Even small UI's must use transparency because they are over so much of the characters
      • The UI decapitates characters, or takes them off just below the shoulders
      • But most important:
        • "Oh my God, these all violate the basics of scene composition, and are ruining the emotional impact of @Lord British quests!"
          • (screen composition is a buff or a debuff to whatever is happening. Right now you're taking a big hit.)

    • So I napkin calculated that with the current camera setup, it's close, just move the camera so the characters are roughly 17% higher on the screen, and they'll hit it almost every time.
      • Benefits include
    • Well composed scenes
      • 10x the emotional impact. Seriously, it's like a buff/debuff. If you place the camera in the wrong location, take a -10 hit to quest importance/excitement
    • The UI not sitting over the mid/lower area of the characters
      • No more decapitations
      • The UI can be bigger and still not decapitate the characters
      • Transparency is now an optional thing instead of being a hack to make up for camera placement

    @GreyI'm not saying anything about a set/fixed camera position, unless you mean nudging the already existing camera position.

    I'm all for dynamic camera systems, but I realize their development time is limited. This is a low hanging fruit with huge emotional payout.
    @oneandonly
     
  11. Jamet

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    I'm really not trying to be like, "I told you so", but the arguments made that this is hard to work out correctly because of the many, many variables like where the NPCs are, camera angle and objects that might get in the way -- really this entire bit about how much harder it is to properly construct a nice NPC conversation window?

    With hand drawn NPC portraits none of this would've been an issue. Done once, finito. You can change it as much as you want later, camera angles and obstructions are a non-issue, and the NPC always looks their best.
    Sigh.

    I know, I'm a broken record.
     
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  12. Sir Cabirus

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    I totally agree with you. As long as the mimic of the NPCs are so deadpan, portraits would also cause a great increase of the immersion.
     
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