Night Vision

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Barugon, Sep 24, 2021.

  1. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    14,154
    Likes Received:
    22,197
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I got tired of Light trailing behind me (and getting stuck there - yes I bug reported it, multiple times) and it's limited range, so I decided to give Night Vision another go. Wow! When did Night vision become so good? Are there any limitations?
     
  2. Vero

    Vero Avatar

    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    612
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Release 89 Patch Notes
    • Night Vision now has improved visuals.

    Could not find any more info
     
  3. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    7,577
    Likes Received:
    27,536
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    We now need night vision distance limits!

    "Now, what's balance got to do with it o_O?"

    Is night vision too good? I think there's room to say that yes it is too good when compared to light. Light has distance limits, where night vision has no distance limits and I do think it needs distance limits or we kill light as a feature in our game.

    I know some will not like this comment on light vs night vision, but when we all walk around looking at a green tinted world, then our normal world ceases to be the world normally seen. The beauty of our world with all it's development $ spent, the beauty apeal of the product becomes less a part of our gaming world life.

    Right now, even in deco, I use light as well as night vision. I use night vision to set things up when it's dark, then turn it off to see what it looks like in normal light. While this may seem OK, most of the guests (and I do mean the majority of them), that pass through my POTs comment that they cannot see certain deco effects because they are always playing in night vision.

    This is not just a personal thing involving only me, night vision with unlimited distance effects the over all eye apeal of our game, because no matter if a player is interested in deco or the beauty of our game's scenery, the lack of it decreases our game's apeal the more night vision becomes common practice.

    We need night vision distance limits in the same distancing limitations light has, and I'd like to hear any other player's comments pro or con on the subject, because currently night vision has no balance with light.

    They may be changing it, but I don't know about such things, I only know there's no balance and night vision 100% beats light.

    Without distance limits when using night vision, I think it very much harms our game.
    On a totally different level of harm it does to our game, we loose this gaming quality as well...
    [​IMG]
    Aren't we loosing in many ways through night vision over improvement?
    Does anyone know what exactly is comming in night vision development?
    I think we're loosing too much when we cheapen the values in light.

    Whacha' Tink' o_O?'
    ~Time Lord~
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
    Aldo likes this.
  4. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    14,154
    Likes Received:
    22,197
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I can honestly say that I don't care, even the slightest, that Light sucks compared to Night Vision. Perhaps they should think about fixing Light's problems (and maybe give it some sort of debuff against undead and shadow creatures) instead of just nerfing Night Vision.
     
  5. FBohler

    FBohler Avatar

    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    575
    Trophy Points:
    63
    That was my wishlist request some releases ago. :D

    I suggested that the light spell increased the overall lighting of the scene by a bit as well (or applied an additional large, subtle light) so we don't get black spots, like in Tartarus for example. This one wasn't granted by the devs though.

    I think that light has its shortcomings but it's still way better looking than night vision.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  6. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    7,577
    Likes Received:
    27,536
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    This harkens back to the earliest of forums posting days and those very early releases, where many players were very upset that we have darkness in our game at all.

    Now, it's a very valid statement where, if this is better and it's lighting everything, even though very differently, "why then do we need light or night vision at all, when all we want is to do is to always see everything"?

    Personally, I don't like the color of night vision, but I also don't like sacrificing enviorment for just making what should be difficult content more easy. It takes the challenge out of what can't be easily seen. We are just making our hunting more easy. But no one is forcing anyone to use night vision, until that content's difficulties begin demanding that we see more, which means it's difficult content. Is that what we're shooting for here, to make difficult content more easy?

    Why does night vision need its expansive radius and light not?

    Sword of the Ba'Heer... (a limited range light source)
    [​IMG]

    Lord Marshal's Helm, same as a Lord British Helm... (a limited light source)
    [​IMG]

    I have one chr that carries 2 of these swords while wearing a Lord Marshal's Helm. He's quite a fashion statement in light, yet even his light radius isn't extended, it's only amplified insted of fading into the darkness. It's well lit within his light radius, yet these are beginner grade swords.

    In the above regard, our coto shop and rare reward items have held a strict domain over gear that produces light. If night vision is to retain it's unlimited radius, then gear that provides light should be set free into being able to be crafted "to extend it's radius". Historically, crafted items have always been touted as always being better than store bought, so why not give craters the ability to not only make items that give off light, but to also extend that light radius (without increasing intensity) depending on the crafter's skill level?

    If radius of vision means nothing being nullified by the 100% visibility in night vision, then actual light needs to be brought along with it. This may mean that goggles could be crafted for those night vision skilled that would then provide distance to what is now. We're taking away what crafters should be able to do by having unlimited 100% distance visibility in night vision.

    Or as asked for in those early days of our game, just to get rid of all darkness everywhere, which was a foolish idea, just as foolish as unlimited distance night vision is today, when it's so much better than light, which has it's radius restricted.

    When we break the mold, it needs to be fixed, and I think we need to program our way into a much more craftable way, instead of just gifting unlimited sight through our current night vision.

    Early night vision goggles...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    We need to craft and skill increase our way to 100% sight radius, not be gifted it.
    And that goes for light as well as night vision.

    We spend allot of development money into making content more difficult so I see no reason to nerf it.
    Just seems a big waist of development $ to nerf our own developed content.

    Most of the special deco effects in our coto shop get nerfed in their importance through their eye apeal being so side stepped by unlimited distance night vision and it's green tint. Deco is the main way our game gets paid for and is one of the great admiring qualities of our game. No one has ever won our screenshot contest using night vision, because although great for hunting due to it's 100% distance radius, it doesn't make for anything that would draw an new player to when looking for a game. Nobody looks at a picture of night vision and thinks, wow that game looks good even though it have dated graphics. Our games eye apeal is slaughtered when it comes to what we see through night vision. It's OK for night vision, but our games eye apeal is lost when using it.

    As one can tell, I see many problems in our night vision in it's current configuration. All of the above I see as being true, but what I see beyond this, is many players complaining when and if that 100% vision in night vision is ever taken away.

    Night vision:
    Artistic Enviorment Ambience (-)
    Making Hunting Content More Easy (+)

    The death of our darkness shouldn't go quietly for the sake of mere expedient convenience in nerfing our own content.
    o_O /askadev o_O
    ~Time Lord~
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
  7. Vaentorian

    Vaentorian Localization Team

    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    UK
    My non-mage character still uses Light instead of Night Vision, ostensibly because Light never fizzles, but tbh it's more an RP choice considering how long Night Vision lasts - even if I fizzle ten times I won't be recasting for a long while after I succeed.

    About the only downside of NV that I can think of is that in bright daylight everything becomes washed out, which is easily fixed by right-clicking the icon and dispelling the effect, definitely not a reason to avoid using it.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  8. Vero

    Vero Avatar

    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    612
    Trophy Points:
    28
    What about a potion which grants a few hours of 'daylight vision' also at night? Like the black pot in UO.

    [​IMG]
     
    FBohler and Time Lord like this.
  9. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    7,577
    Likes Received:
    27,536
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    Yes, I think crafted ways are always the best ways because they can be ingame marketed ;)~TL~
     
  10. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

    Messages:
    4,708
    Likes Received:
    12,031
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Broken Ground
    I absolutely love night vision because i don't have to put a beacon to my location where ever I go. But TBH, I think it has improved to the point where it practically cheating which Time Lord is calling out. I will still use it though. But I would not be heart-broken if it was reigned in a bit.
     
    Vaentorian and Time Lord like this.
  11. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    7,577
    Likes Received:
    27,536
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    I think it's a programing hurdle that was a barrier back in (sota)-2015;

    2015 Chris Quotes:
    We're missing a few features to do in render space UI well. There are features coming up in the next six months that should let us to this and then we can fix some of those issues. Right now they are just rendered at the same time as everything else so they get all full screen effects. This is also visible in text and name plates getting bloomed so I really look forward to being able to fix this.
    ~
    Torch is the easiest and what you start with. It never runs out (Richard wants to change that) and gets the job done. Light is a step up from torch, leaves your hands free, has a brighter light, but has a duration. Night Vision let's you see any distance (not just stuff close to you), isn't visible to others (Stealthy!), but it's green, has a duration, and cost a fair amount of focus. Other option is to wear one of the items that glows. These are like a torch but a bit more dim but leave your hands free.

    Oh, and the new option is a bit less practical but lots more fun, the Darklamp. It is a spot light instead of a point light.
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/night-sight-still-needs-work.38101/

    Here's some comments from a thread this year in April:
    I'm thinking that "distance" is the ladder needed, where either through skill the distance increases or through ingame crafted eye wear, or through both, there seem many oprtions to accomplish this, if any early development hurdles can be overcome in accomplishing distance limiting, given that this is now 2021 and it was last visited by our developers in 2015 (? I haven't found an update later than 2015, but I suspect it has just for programing touch-ups.

    I'm saying we need to re-visit what could be better. For instance it's 2021 now and nobody uses torches beyond their first 2-4 hours of play, yet torches still burn out, their usefulness being in the game at this point is just backpack clutter. What would it hurt to make those last without burning themselves out? Like bunny ears for helmets, why not a torch pattern for a shield?

    I use night vision on quite a few of my chrs, but I think it needs to be governed through skill level and through crafted items, because this is 2021. I also use one of those spotlight lanterns, but just because it looks cool.

    Here's something that would look cool for high skill level light to fly over our heads... a flying Dune style light...
    [​IMG]

    Our night vision isn't scaled and now in the year 2021, I think it possibly could be.
    I'm looking into options.
    ~TL~



     
    Tahru likes this.
  12. grendal1971

    grendal1971 Avatar

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Being fairly new I will put in my 2c. I see the torch as a RP item or for when you want an immersive experience, but it's not useful any other time. The light spell is useful when you need light but the orb is annoying at best. I discovered night sight quite by accident when exploring my moon spell tree and was instantly amazed that the trolls in my simple dungeon actually had clothes on.. However, I tire quickly of its nausea inducing screen effect and the dullness of everything and now only use it when light just isn't cutting it.

    As for the darkness of the world, I like it and the need for lighting, even if many light sources could be a little brighter..
     
  13. FBohler

    FBohler Avatar

    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    575
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You can turn screen effects off in the Options menu if you want to.
     
    Time Lord and Adam Crow like this.
  14. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    7,577
    Likes Received:
    27,536
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~

    "That's a great tip to know @FBohler :D!"
    [​IMG]
     
    FBohler likes this.
  15. Scanphor

    Scanphor Avatar

    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    815
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Its uncomfortably similar to the visual effects you experience with certain types of migraine attacks......
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  16. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    14,154
    Likes Received:
    22,197
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Here's a drawback:

    I went to Jotungrund in order to try out some of the quests. When I entered the zone, it was dark, so I cast Night Vision. While I was fighting a Frothing Red Ice Snarler, the sun came up and it was like whiteout conditions. I could barely make out what was going on around me. On top of that, the Night Vision buff was folded into a "+5" group at the front of the buffs and I couldn't cancel it. Really sucked until the buff wore off.

    BTW, the Frothing Red Ice Snarler was way to hard to kill for the rewards that I received.
     
    FBohler and Time Lord like this.
  17. FBohler

    FBohler Avatar

    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    575
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Buff management needs work for sure. Too many tiny squares dancing around with very similar icons, going in and out the "+n" icon during fights.
     
    Barugon and Time Lord like this.