Offline Spawning Rules and launch

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MindBlast, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. MindBlast

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    I was reading Q1 2018 Schedule Update post and this caught my eye. "Offline spawning rules" are in the end of the second list. If i understood correctly it means that offline spawning rules are added in the game as late as at the end of 2018.

    In my honest opinion, that is a feature that must be in the game in the launch. So far SotA is advertised also as a single player game and that's basic feature for sp game. If there will be marketing campaign before launch, some people will come only for SP experience. How disappointed they are going to be when they found out that dungeons and some other areas can't be cleared (and get a reward for that), just monsters that spawn 4ever, everywhere? This should be changed.

    @Lord British @DarkStarr
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  2. Lars vonDrachental

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    Actually I never understood why some have the impression that in sp games areas have to be clear-able…:confused:...I understand that unique and rare monsters like dragons or daemons should not infinitely “resurrect” but for normal enemies on a continent a single person could fight a whole lifetime but could not obliterate all of them even if for a short time a small local area could be cleared.
    As I understood this is mostly used as some kind of exp limiter to define a max level someone can reach in a game but out of my perspective such a mechanic is mostly quite unrealistic.
    So in my humble opinion this shouldn’t change in general…just for some chosen exceptions like maybe unique bosses.
     
  3. Lord_Darkmoon

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    For one it's about turning around and seeing that suddenly the wolf pack is back again. Didn't I just kill them all? What happened?
    Second it is about a sense of achieving something. If I want to "clear" the woods of the bandits and defeat all of them in their hideout, why should they respawn? So I really cannot achieve anything?
    Then it is about the bosses and "quest enemies". If I have to defeat the Dragon overlord that abducts the princess but it keeps respawning, then why should I do this quest? I can never kill the Dragon and I can never rescue the princess. So all I do is for naught.

    Respawning is neccessary for a MMO in which everyone has to kill the Dragon and everyone wants to fight something in the world. But if I am alone why should the Kobolds in front of me respawn after I defeated them? Why should the bandits be forever in their hideout after I defeated all of them? It is about a sense of achievement. Defeating enemies and they respawn again and again and again then I cannot achieve anything in the world.
     
  4. Senash Kasigal

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    The Cultist Mage killed you, went back to his camp and while he is telling his story about his glorious victory over you, you return in full health and attack his camp again. How is that possible? :rolleyes:
     
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  5. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Now THAT is great storytelling, isn't it ;)

    So why fight at all? No one can die? Nothing can happen. Nothing can be achieved.

    That is truly a single-player narrativ :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  6. Senash Kasigal

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    To be clear, I think the offline mode needs different spawning rules. Some areas cant be done allone with endless respawning.
    I like the encounter scenes. I clear them and leave them with the feeling of an archieved victory over the Sneaky attackers. :p
     
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  7. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    Yes, this should be done. A lot things about combat balance and respawning has been done so far.
    There is more needed for the Solo/offline feeling.
    @MindBlast, for further information, what was done so far, and may be, what is needed furthermore, have a look here :)
     
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  8. twofoldsilence

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    Also, something needs to be done with all the empty POTs and PRTs, as well as all the empty player lots in NPC towns for the single player offline mode, as the way it is currently with them all being empty in the case of POTs/PRTs and player lots in NPC towns is really sad and makes the game look unfinished. A simple solution for the POTs/PRTs would be to remove them from the over world map, but I can't think of any easy solution for player lots in towns, but something has to be done with them. What would have really been great, but it's too late in development to do it would have been to just completely separate player housing from NPC towns, and this would have helped the game overall story wise as then the NPC towns could have been built from the ground up as unique Ultima 4 - 6 style single player towns such as Britannia, Yew, Moonglow, etc.
     
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  9. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    That's right, but consider this:
    In offline mode will NO house be shown. If you walk through Soltown or other citys, there is no player owned house!
    So there is no problem in Solo OFFLINE mode. (You see them in online mode. But why should a player, loving to play alone, doing so in online mode?)

    And this: if you look on the MAP, the inhabitants of the row lots will be shown (also in offline mode), but this needs just a click in the map options to vanish.
    So, no problem with that.
    For more information about Solo offline game, and what was done so far, watch this thread, please :)
     
  10. MindBlast

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    Reason is pretty much what Lord_Darkmoon said, shortly put: achieving something. Obviously, all areas should not be clearable, in some areas monsters should respawn slowly and in some cases new inhabitants should replace them: you kill monsters ---> animals starts to appear etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
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  11. Arkah EMPstrike

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    The end of Q1 is in march.
     
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  12. MindBlast

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    Yes it is, i know. Not sure what you are trying to say?
     
  13. Lars vonDrachental

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    I didn’t say that the spawn times should be similar between single player offline and the online modes just that clearing an area is at least in my opinion unreasonable.
    Even if you kill everything within a specific area it will not take that much time till there are animals entering the area from the neighboring ground.
    To achieve “area cleared” you would need to destroy all fauna and flora and make additionally the area unusable by e.g. turning the ground into lava as else it is unlikely that you will ever be able to achieve this goal for a reasonable time.

    But they are living in the woods and out of their perspective you maybe swank around in their front garden/sovereign territory and while you kill the group in front of you several young villager decide that they do not like their current life in the mud of a piggery and join the bandits to live a free life not knowing that they will be just your cannon fodder.

    It's even in the quote you made that I think too that these should be exceptions. If there are e.g. ten dragons on novia and you killed them they are gone…maybe after several months or years there could be a slight chance that a dragon is starting to nest again on offline novia but these rare enemies are not anyhow comparable with the millions of normal enemies that should be active on a continent…killing some thousands of them is not even visibly thinning their population.

    Well I would guess you are from the USA so I will use an example out of that region and hope it is a fitting one. ;)
    Simply take a weapon of your choice, go out and start to annihilate all razorbacks. As far as I heard they are quite a pest in the USA and even with state authorities in charge and mass killing they are not able to get rid of them.
    And of course you can achieve something and influence the world. You can help some villagers, solve their problems and they will be thankfull about that you made their lives easier and as their problems are solved they will not ask again for your help in this context...and you can save the world but do not think many will know about it in a medieval world...and you can gain wealth and property and change the appearance of a town by building shacks or palaces...and you can be e.g. a mass murderer of kobolds but to think someone can kill them all or at least enought that there is noone availble to revenge the fallen is maybe hubris regarding the mountain of corpses one person would need to create to exterminate a whole civilization. :p :D

    Again, yes there should be difference between offline and online but in my opinion beeing generally able to permanently clear all areas simply sounds odd.
     
  14. twofoldsilence

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    IMO. Another similar issue with SotA as a whole that Port will hopefully fix before the release is that many of the NPC towns still have nameless NPCs running around adding nothing to the world / region they're in / story / current state of quests other then the visual of them walking around aimlessly, so it would be nice if they could at least have names, and, better yet, have things to say relevant to SotA that just add flavor to the game even if they're random one liners without entering into an actual conversation with them such as "I wish I was as inventive as Kobolds.", "I heard that Fred in Ardoris is looking for his lost daughter.", "I hate rain.", "I don't trust the Oracle.", "The undead they scare me.", etc., etc.. In fact, I personally would prefer that NPC's not relevant to the actual story / quests just say random one liners instead of having to start complete conversations with them that add nothing to SotA.
     
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  15. Bowen Bloodgood

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    In Ultimas if you were allowed to die at all, it was game over. Otherwise you were saved somehow and never actually died.

    This is pretty hard to pull off well online which is why were have the ridiculous explanation we have now. Getting 'killed' for ANY reason simply alloys me. The cultist mage on the other had.. being a computer driven NPC has no such hangups about being killed. So he's not really a consideration as his sense of logic never comes into play and is never in conflict with the player's. At any rate, if I had my way.. offline "death" would function in the same way as Ultimas.. defeat means you "pass out" and respawn somewhere having woken up after being rescued.. (ie left for dead and found by someone etc).
     
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  16. Bowen Bloodgood

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    He's trying to say the '2nd list' applies to Q1.. not the end of the year.
     
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  17. MindBlast

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    Ok, but it doesn't apply to Q1? I thought it is pretty clear:

     
  18. Stundorn

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    would like it if SPO offer us the ability to clear the whole scene and it just resets when you leave and go in again, mobs and ressources of course.
    This way one/ or small group can go and have his/ their little adventure in SPO like:
    tonight i'm/we're going to explore the XY Mines or any other Scene.
    The coolest thing would be if after you cleared the area, friendly NPC and Vendors appear.
    In wilderness roaming merchants or even Quest NPC could appear,
    Tenebris Harbor for example could open some stores to restock to a special low prices...
    This way you also could use the Scenes for your private RP Sessions and RP along in the Environment.
     
  19. Bowen Bloodgood

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    *Shrug* was just clarifying what he seemed to be trying to say.

    In any case, it's not specifically clear at what point any of that stuff will be scheduled to be worked on. Offline spawns could just as easily be worked on in June. Though I personally am of the opinion that major offline work should take priority over some extras post launch. Being able to play offline was a major selling point. We're fast approaching (I know some will argue well past) the point were offline needs a lot of 'love'. In a perfect world it should be done by launch.. not after.
     
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  20. Lars vonDrachental

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    This sounds like a possible solution for offline mode…no respawning as long as you are in the scene but once you leave the enemies and resources reappear...even if I thill think they should respawn allways but at a lower rate than in the online part.
    (Oh and the mentioned respawn rule maybe not active in areas where this wouldn’t be reasonable like attacking a settlement there should always respawn reinforcements or the already mentioned bosses that should stay dead).

    I actually would think in a world full of monsters and humanoids who would like to kill you that it is quite unlikely that there are hiding some traders in the shadows of a cave till someone temporarily is clearing the area…I mean especially in offline mode you are the only one who is possibly willing to do that and waiting in the dark just in the hope that someday a customer might come and kill all monsters sound not like a good decision for a merchant. :p

    Anyway I think with an adjustment this can be an option. E.g. there is standing an NPC trader at the entrance of the scene and is just willing to trade with you if the area is secure. So to say he is willing to open his shop for a while in exchange for a secure passage through the area but maybe have left his position if you was too slow but maybe you could still catch him on his way throught the scene.
    Or if you rescue a merchant who is imprisoned and after rescuing him he collects his remaining good and offers them at a discount to you. Maybe you even get a moral choice in this case...you have freed the merchant and he needs money to restock in the next city. Either you take the chance of getting cheap goods and take advantage of his situation or you are willing to pay the normal price or you are even willing to pay more with a slight chance that he will offer some hidden goods that he wouldn’t normally offer. ;)
     
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