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Path of Love Feedback: Malice Final Confrontation [spoilers]

Discussion in 'Release 42 Feedback Forum' started by Vyrin, Jun 11, 2017.

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  1. Vyrin

    Vyrin Avatar

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    @Lum the Mad

    I hate to say it, but the end of the path of love is simply frustrating. There are so many unanswered questions and threads of dialogue that don't tie together. Also, I play almost no role in the events as the supposed "hero". Keyword issues abound leading to stories in reverse order and out of context responses. There are triggers that don't work quite right. I don't feel any connection to the characters.

    Key points:
    1) Somehow Samael all of a sudden launches me on my way to kill Anapa without even knowing why I need to.
    2) I liberate Samael from his regret without doing anything.
    3) The whole first encounter with Samael seems like a story told in reverse.
    4) Anapa speaks of many things that are never fully explained like Drachvald and the betrayal in Drachvald. I fear this will not be explained later in the story ending. When I kill Anapa, I am confused as to what it all means. The ending with Sequanna doesn't resolve it.
    5) I get that Anapa hates me because I'm an outlander. But it doesn't make me feel like I have anything personal with Anapa either. There's been no buildup to him being an enemy. I really didn't feel any great motivation to fight him other than I knew I needed to jump through that hoop.
    6) I don't get any dialogue clearly explaining why Anapa took Sequanna. I can speculate but there is so little about their confrontation and why it took place.
    7) Keywords allow dialogue to be out of order again with confusing results. See example below.
    8) Samael's role is confusing. When Anapa first mentions him in the opening, he's kind of a throw away... only being kept around to translate. Then it's revealed he's the most important pawn in Anapa's plans? Ultimately it seems like one issue of regret with Samael was enough to bind Sequanna. Really?
    9) Samael's farewell response after killing Anapa doesn't update.
    10) Conversation with Sequanna doesn't really get to the "heart" of why she was trapped and what the heart really is.
    11) I have no role in freeing Sequanna. Samael figures it out and all I have to do is watch it proceed. So much for being a hero!
    12) Samael still has something to let go of at the end - but didn't I by some magic already free him from his regret earlier?
    13) I couldn't get my "destiny" from Sequanna until I hit the keyword a few times.
    14) In the end Samael disregards you in farewell. Seems justified as you really didn't do anything to help him or free Sequanna. You are more just a mercenary needed to take out Anapa. But he did speak glowingly of your ability to free him from regret.
    15) No loot except a quest item that has no use. Not even a unique cloak in a chest or some such?


    Details:

    1 & 2 & 3)

    When I finally find Samael in Malice after the confusion of trying to hire him, there is a "Spirit of Regret" that blinks out right away as I approach, never to be seen again. This part is quite confusing.

    Spirit of Regret: The undead rest while Sequanna is still.
    Samael: I cannot stay here much longer. Allow me my last farewells, and I shall meet you for the final confrontation with Anapa, the one who holds the chains in this dark place. Until then, I will answer any further questions you might have
    Spirit of Regret: (to Samael) Samael... thank you.


    Ok, so this is the intro to my conversation with Samael. He's already telling me he's going to meet me for a confrontation with Anapa? I haven't learned anything about Anapa yet!

    Vyrin: dead
    Samael: (to you) The past must remain in the past. Thank you for helping me to see this, avatar. I have to learn to live in the present. To remember the love we shared in its beauty, rather than its name.


    This is the very first word I said to Samael, and he's thanking me for ? Maybe it makes more sense if I hired him in Necropolis?

    Vyrin: muriel
    Samael: (to you) Muriel was everything to me... the very reason I came... but my love, selfish that it was, was twisted and used against us both, nothing but a tool in Anapa's hands. We must make him pay for that, avatar.


    At this point I feel like I'm getting the story in reverse. Hence the need for more straight dialogue. This is my first indication of what Anapa might be doing that needs to be stopped.. and I'm only learning this right at his doorstep?

    Samael: (to you) He is the warlord of the dead, and Malice is his realm... he is the master here. How he is calling the undead to his service I know not.


    Anapa is still shrouded in mystery, there's no way I was feeling any emotional connection to the story at this point. I just had learned enough to know this was the next hoop to jump.

    Overall, this is probably one of the most disjointed and confusing parts of the path of love. I'm heading into some sort of confrontation with Anapa and not entirely sure why. Samael is my best friend and all I did was type one keyword... I really didn't do anything for him.

    4)

    So with this lead in, the confrontation with Anapa seems quite artificial and very little makes sense.

    Anapa: Avatar. You stand before Anapa. Say what you will. It will not save you.
    Samael: (to Anapa) You speak as one alive!
    Anapa: (to Samael) Of course, you fool. I live. I will always live. The last weapon, the blessing of the Drachvald, the eternal curse. I have torn out love's heart. I bring vengeance forth for the great betrayal. And you, Samael, you will speak for me. You are capable of that much.


    "blessing of Drachvald" "eternal curse" "love's heart" "great betrayal"? Ok wait a minute Anapa, before I hate you, I have like 1,000 questions.

    Vyrin: anapa
    Anapa's anger is growing.
    Anapa: (to you) I ruled the Drachvald in the days of its beauty and glory, before it was ground to dust. Betrayal brought it to death, to ruin. I have sought ever since to find the means to avenge it. You have brought me those means.


    At last some backstory! Ok, I can see why you are angry - but what betrayal? Is this tied to Outlanders? Avatars?

    Anapa: (dying) You think you have won. You know nothing. The dark lord will not rise.

    "dark lord" WHAT? Why would I want a dark lord to rise anyway?

    So in the end, in this main confrontation, I am left confused and bewildered, not sure what my cause actually is.

    5)

    Vyrin: Drachvald
    Anapa's anger is growing.
    Anapa: (to you) You think you know beauty, love. You know little. You never walked through the gates of paradise as I have. Beauty turns to ash. Love turns to betrayal. All dies. And yet I yearn for nothing more than to live in the reflection of its glory. Sadly, there are prices to be paid. And I will ensure that you pay them.


    Um, ok I did something that I have to pay a price for? Can you give me a hint as to what that is?

    Vyrin: paradise
    Anapa's anger is growing.
    Anapa: (to you) The ruin of the world came from you. You avatars. You consume. You take and you fight and you prattle and you never, ever die. In ever greater numbers, seeking who best conforms to the prophecy of a mad machine. Destroying you is a kindness. You will never know the beauty of Drachvald risen. You are not capable. I will drive you all into holes as the sky falls upon you. You will cower, and my deathless armies will drag you into the fire. And you will die. You will finally die.


    Ok I get it - you are an outlander hater, and I'm just one of them. Got it. So it's not personal. Hmmm... are interactive stories supposed to be personal?

    So what exactly is Drachvald again... you mean this region? Already hit that keyword so no more information to be had.

    6)

    Vyrin: heart
    Anapa's anger is growing.
    I have made a note of this in my journal.
    Anapa: (to you) When I took Sequanna, I removed her heart. What need has she for a heart, if love is sorrow? But in my kindness, I restored a heart to her. A heart of power, fitting such a being. Once that collects the regret of souls near her. And there is so much sorrow. So very much. So much burden.
    Samael: (to Anapa) And thus how you imprisoned her!
    Anapa: (to Samael) Her compassion forges her own chains. She is always free to go. She need simply stop caring. Her prison is of her own making.


    Am I to guess here that Sequanna was just another outlander and that's why you took her? Was there some other reason? I still don't know your game Anapa.

    Vyrin: sequanna
    Anapa's anger is growing.
    Anapa: (to you) Sequanna built this garden under the mountain, within my realm. Is it not a fitting gift? But it was not enough. When I took her, I tore out her heart, and turned it into something more appropriate. I returned it to her then, and yet she did not properly appreciate my generosity. Thus I took her throne as well, and made it my own. It is not enough, but it will suffice for now.


    "Garden"? You mean she built Malice? And she had a throne?

    7)

    Vyrin: free
    Anapa's anger is growing.
    Anapa: (to you) It is a lie, of course. They will never be free. They will always serve. Theirs is a war that can never end.


    "They" who is that? Outlanders? Undead? Obsidians? Titans? From a response later - I'm assuming undead. This is again a problem with keywords.

    8)

    Vyrin: need
    Anapa's anger is growing.
    Anapa: (to Samael) You, Samael. You are whom I need. You are the means of my vengeance.
    Samael: (to Anapa) Me?
    Anapa: (to Samael) It was I who sent the undead to kill your wife and children. It was I who took the ring from her dying hand. It was I who had it sent to you as a reminder of the loss you can feel. It was I who drove every step you took to this place, who showed you the mirror of a past already beyond reach. Because you will serve me.


    Oh now Samael is useful to you? At the start you said all he could do was translate. Hmmm....
    And Samael is important why? Couldn't you have done that with almost anyone? Is it because he is a spirit talker?

    9)

    Vyrin: lady Sequanna
    Samael: Anapa has fallen! Quickly, we must move onward and find the lady Sequanna!
    Vyrin: farewell
    Samael: Take care. Anapa is ancient, intelligent, and dangerous. And very angry.


    Samael farewell response needs to be updated after Anapa is killed.

    10 & 11)

    With Sequanna, I again get some sense of what is going on but am left with so many questions...

    Vyrin: heart
    I wrote of this in my journal.
    Sequanna: My brothers and I forged this heart of our compassion. The longing, the regrets. Forging my chains, forging their chains, forging your chains, Samael.
    Samael: (to Sequanna) My chains? But you hold the Heart of Sorrows. Nothing binds me here, my lady.
    Sequanna: (to Samael) The link of your chain is your ring, Muriel's ring, the ring, the ring, the ring, the regret, the regret, the regret, so much pain, so very much pain, so very much pain...
    Samael: (to you) I think I understand, avatar. Speak to me again. Ask me of my ring.


    This has a host of problems:

    Why did they forge a heart in the first place? Didn't Anapa say that he "removed" Sequanna's heart? Was he referring to her real heart? Why did he take it in the first place?

    Samael figures things out for me? Am I just along for the ride here? If he figures out the puzzle, what's my role? The muscle to kill Anapa?

    By the way didn't Samael already say he let go of Muriel? He thanked me for helping him do it... but wait he's still not free of it?

    Sequanna: (to Samael) Samael! I can protect you. You are safe here. Give to me your regrets. Give to me your loss. Give to me your sorrow. I will hold them for you.
    Samael: (to Sequanna) No! That is not love. Love is loss. Sorrow. Pain. It has to be, because without it it is an empty thing! We have to open ourselves to the possibility of loss to truly love, because... because without that it is not real. It is just a chain, a formless thing.
    Sequanna: (to Samael) You begin to understand.


    If Sequanna understands why can't she free herself? Or just work with Samael?


    12)

    Vyrin: ring
    Samael: This ring! This binds me here, to this place, with my own regrets. Just as surely as Sequanna's chains bind her here.


    But you said I freed you earlier!

    Samael: (to Sequanna) My wife was kind, loving, joyful. That is not lost! Her memories will always stay with me, as long as I live. But my own regrets, my anger, my need for vengeance... that is what binds her here. Not Anapa. Me.
    Sequanna: (to Samael) You have taken a sorrow from me. A chain is loosened. But who will protect the dead from sorrow. Who will protect you from pain.
    Samael: (to Sequanna) I need no such protection! I need to.. to lay down my regrets, the memories of my failures. I forgive my wife for dying. I forgive myself!
    Sequanna: (to Samael) You have taken a regret from me. A chain is loosened. But the ring has bound your regrets, as surely as my heart has bound mine.
    Samael: (to Sequanna) My wife's ring does not bind me any more. It liberates me. It reminds me of our time together. I will always look down and see her smile, and feel the warmth of her love, and remember our time together... the happiest of my life.
    Sequanna: (to Samael) You have taken a loss from me. The chains are broken. I am free.
    Samael: (to you) Avatar... something is happening... can you feel the air crackling?


    Why is Samael's attachment to Muriel of such cosmic importance that it is what binds Sequanna?
    Samael is the avatar here for all intents and purposes, I'm just an observer. Is this where we learn the virtue of humility?

    13)

    Vyrin: farewell
    Sequanna: (to you) Wait! Speak to me of your destiny, avatar.
    Vyrin: destiny
    Sequanna: (to you) I cannot see what destiny reveals... I must... I must...
    Vyrin: avatar
    Sequanna: (to you) I'm not sure what you mean.
    Vyrin: love
    Sequanna: (to you) I teach of compassion, of love. It is part of how I carry the memory of the world I came from. Perhaps if enough learn of compassion and love, the way home for my brothers and myself may finally open.
    Vyrin: destiny
    Sequanna: (to you) I cannot see what destiny reveals... I must... I must...
    Vyrin: oracle
    Sequanna: (to you) If you say so.
    Vyrin: virtue
    Sequanna: (to you) I don't understand. Could you explain?
    Vyrin: free
    Sequanna: (to you) I shall depart, myself, at the proper moment, once the dead have passed on.
    Vyrin: farewell
    Sequanna: (to you) Wait! Speak to me of your destiny, avatar.
    Vyrin: path of love
    Sequanna: (to you) I teach of compassion, of love. It is part of how I carry the memory of the world I came from. Perhaps if enough learn of compassion and love, the way home for my brothers and myself may finally open.
    Vyrin: home
    Sequanna: (to you) I'm not sure what you mean.
    Vyrin: next
    Sequanna: (to you) Hmm.
    Vyrin: speak
    Sequanna: (to you) If you say so.
    Vyrin: destiny
    Sequanna: (to you) I give to you now the Heart of Sorrows, that which bound me here. It is a powerful item of magic, which you must never use else it may consume you as it has me. Yet, though I cannot see how, I can see that you shall need it at the end of your journey, which you must now take your next steps upon...
    You gained 100000 experience needed for skill development!
    You received an item (Heart of Sorrows) from Sequanna
    Vyrin: next steps
    I wrote of this in my journal.
    I wrote of Sequanna's request regarding Boreus in my journal.
    I wrote of Sequanna's request regarding Grannus in my journal.


    Somehow when Sequanna asks me to speak to her of my destiny, it takes 3 tries before she does. I still don't know what I missed as a trigger and why it finally worked.

    14)

    Vyrin: farewell
    Samael: (to you) Please, leave me to my thoughts for now.


    Samael's farewell for the quest is quite anticlimactic. I guess he's done being my best friend.

    15)

    And in the end, no loot except a quest item that has no usable properties.
     
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  2. ashmaul

    ashmaul Avatar

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    For me the chat windows when I type Heart or Ring just close and nothing updates.
    It is very frustrating since I spent 3 hours getting down here and many deaths.
     
  3. ashmaul

    ashmaul Avatar

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    Do not try to log off and come back to this quest in Malice either. it seems the hole thing resets and you have to go through the process all over again...
     
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  4. Illiaro

    Illiaro Avatar

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    I tried three times and could not get Samael to talk to me at the end. Is there another Samael to talk to to free his wife?
     
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  5. Max Bennis

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    Hopefully quest related bugs are cleared up until reset token is provided(I expect R45~46)
     
  6. nikkon78

    nikkon78 Avatar

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    can't finsh the quest. Samael allways say if as ask for the Ring. " NO. Do NOT speak to my of this Ring, or my wife! Why did you bring me here! We must go back !

    I can't nothing do to talk with Sequanna. if i enter Destiny nothings happend. Samael dos not open the Chains
     
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