Pay to Play Professions

I watched the video from FreeGames, and I may have misunderstood ( I have a headache ), but I think that Richard had said that future professions might be charged for. Which considering?there aren't?going to be subscription fees I think is a fair thing?to do, however if that is the case then how many professions will be the base 'free' ones, or will they be charged for down the line?

 

Without having seen the video, this doesn't sound like RG because his fans would literally explode. If new professions are released, I believe he will "charge" for them in the form of buying episode 2 which would be the likely time frame any new profs would get added.

 

That is indeed what it sounded like.

We just have to convince him that *isn't* the way I'd much rather, like LordSlack said, get them alongside new episodes.

 

I feel all of that is fair game to be on the table. Look if they can make a good enough game that a million people pay $15/month to play, I'm happy to be one of them. The only thing I don't want is something where 1000 people pay for something and the rest just exist for their entertainment. Because we know that's an unsustainable model.

 

Since it is sub free, it is logical to believe there will be a paid store. Usually cosmetic things go in here to avoid the Pay2Win model, but if he does include some bonus professions, I would hope they would all be crafting or artistic related. Like a painter who can upload images into portraits (sweet!). Combat related profs would certainly be pay to win.

 

I thought this game had no class

 

Saying about those who ''just exist for their entertainment'', this is a game so that is what it's for, putting it as you did sounds demeaning.

I do understand they need to be able to have profit to come in to keep the game servers online, I just hope it doesn't come in the monthly subscription form. Plus charging a monthly fee might turn away those who just want to play offline because I don't know of any offline games that charge monthly subscription fees. With the point you're trying to make about those who ''just exist'', meaning those that just want to play and don't mind going without the new profession, a subscription fee for only online players would make offline players ''just exist''.

It makes more sense to charge for a profession because then it can give offline players something to purchase that they could use or want. I don't mind if they charge for different professions, I would pay to have a new skill or profession.... heck a second character slot I DEFINITELY would! Maybe if Richard decides he doesn't mind other species/races to play then charge to do that. Charging for a profession also makes more sense than charging for some special weapon in game, because there will be more who do not care if they have it or not, and charging to open up lands is always immensely frustrating. I won't play a game where I have to pay to be able to explore the land fully because there are many pieces blocked off from non-members.

 

I believe the OP is referring to what Richard said during an interview with freegameslist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l5224EIFEDA

He mentions how he likes how League of Legends does their game free to play. where you can play enough and earn points to buy things that you want, or if you want to buy everything available you can do so with real money.

So if he were to make a free to play game, he would have to make it really easy to immediately get into and like it. people wont put up with a game that takes awhile to play.. this is around the 12 minute mark.

around 15 mins: He says you will be able to play SoTA for free as a digital download at first. Enough to really know if you'll want to play it. Then he can charge you for it. And if after 6 months they might release some new character classes (skills) so they'll let you try them out, but if you want to really play that skill(class) then you'll have to buy it.

At the $33 pledge tier you already get EP1 and all it entails. (maybe you wont get the 6 month content(class/skill) upgrade pack, we don't know, we don't even know if they'll release content packs or just go straight to EP2)
It's for diversity, not play to win... and those who pledge pre-alpha are probably getting the best deal you can expect.

 

I remember Richard saying he doesn't want a bunch of micro-transactions. Therefore there won't be a pay option to get good items etc.

However he does mention that if his team works a number of months developing a completely new skill tree (which is not a small addition) he would open up that skill tree to those who want it for an optional fee.

That would be to pay for the time spent by his team to develop that particular skill etc. However there will not be any micro-transactions to say buy some really cool platemail or an indestructible sword.

 

Isaiah is spot on and this is exactly what Richard and team have stated from the very first days of the Kickstarter. You get a full game and if they later develop add-ons, including entire skill trees, they will be optional and not required to stay relevant in the game.

 

Thank you for the marking of where Richard had brought up about the professions charge Sir Mishri.

He had said there will be no micro-transactions, which is one of the things that makes me so excited about SoTA. A friend of mine had me try Runescape which has micro transactions for opening land and weapons, which is a reason I will never like it.

Richard has my respect for so much that he is doing with SoTA, and everything he has done with his previous Ultimas. I generally would never have paid for any pledge nor would I pay for a pre-order, but in the case of SoTA I am glad I did because I believe that this will be an incredibly special game just like his other works.

 

Isaiah and Lori are right, he was very specific that this game is BUY to play, once you buy it you own it, all of it. Yes if they spend money building a whole new skill tree you may have to buy that but that is effectively an expansion pack anyway so why wouldn't you have to buy it?

 

Like others have said, RG has said that the new games in the series would open up parts of the land and have new features and would cost. You would need to buy the game to get these features. I doubt he will do anything like traditional micro-transactions. He said in the same video that those types of things insulted him as a gamer, and his goal was to respect players.

I think it is a little early yet to know what exactly will be in one game to another, but I am sure the game expansions will be well worth the cost asked. Of course my tier level will get me all 5 *maniacal laughter then looked into pocketbook and sheds a tear*.

 

I'm pretty sure there will be microtransactions. The intent is for them to be decorative stuff, such as floppy hats. So people can ignore the microtransactions and get the full game experience (minus floppy hat).

All this assumes that the policy hasn't changed without me hearing about it. I want to make sure there are no misunderstandings.

My personal thoughts re microtransactions: Coming from subscription-based games, I'm used to paying for content (and it doesn't bother me anymore). Removing the monthly subscription is a big bonus, so I wouldn't object to the occasional trinket (as long as the game doesn't become pay-to-win). SotA won't need character services (server transfer, rename), nobody would want crafters to compete with microtransaction items. Hmm, not a lot left to buy in any case.

 

actually no, they don't need to pay to play because its run for the most part off your own computer as a server so there are no huge farms of servers to pay for. Think battlenet before wow, how was that funded? it was funded from sales of starcraft and diablo 2 and LOD and this will be the same. The only things you will pay for are new games (ie chapter 2-5) and any expansion packs they make which would require significant resources on there part (ie they have to pay designers and coders)

 

I think you have to look at SotA a little bit differently. It's basically a "dual genre" game. At the core is the single player RPG which is what you get as a base when you buy each episode (or kickstart to get 1 or all). The other part is the MMO persistent world.

As I understand it, you'll get the base skills needed to complete the RPG storyline part with each Episode purchase as well as whatever skill trees they have ready to release with that episode. If they add in new skills and skill trees, then those would NOT be needed to complete the storyline, but would add to the MMO side of the game and in that regard be released as a micro-transaction.

Not sure if that's actually how it's going to be, but that seems to make some sense in my mind anyway.

 

I disagree Sir Asguard MGT470 Honest Ghost Knight. (holder of the longest name). He said he doesn't do pay to win. But, i'm pretty sure we'll see some store items that give you something in game, they might be cosmetic only, but I'm pretty sure they intend to capitalize on real money transactions for those that wont those little extras.

Look at UO right now, EA sells in game items in UO right now. They aren't anything you'll get a competitive advantage with, but for $10 you can get things like housing teleport stones, special looking ships, house decorating kits. for $20 advanced character (high starting skills).. all sorts of things from $5-20 that are mostly cosmetic or time saving. ($20 for raised garden beds).

I don't see any reason for them not to take advantage of these sorts of things. These also aren't micro-transactions where you are sitting in game buying items with real money for .05-$1.. We are talking about offline(website) purchases, quality things that add something to your experience. (I wont defend UO's current offerings or pricing tiers). I'd expect them to be more like the champion packs in League of Legends.. you can still get any heroes, skins and items by playing(but not all, they release new stuff faster than you can earn it), if you want them all, you have to buy them.

This is just my guess anyway. They will have servers they need to maintain and their staff... and heck, look at kickstarter, i paid $750 for a house and a few items haha.

 

Good point with Kickstarter Mishri. I myself have put 200 toward the little knick-knacks that they offered, however that has been the only time I've ever done that, and most of the stuff is physical items or permanent titles and such.

With Ultima Online however from what I've ever seen the in game vendors don't advertise any of the cash purchases items like League of Legends or many others do by showing these greyed out things to purchase. There are no pop-ups, quest advertisements, or any other advertisements, from what I know you have to search them outside of game. There are no limiting items that if you don't buy it then you are unable to do something you may have an interest in doing. This is something I never bother doing, if I can't get it by drops from pvm or buying houses through the tool then I don't need it. I don't even buy through in game player vendors though, for the same reason, I like to have the feeling that I worked for something and got it myself, but that is only my preference.

Since we haven't seen what Richard has in mind because the game isn't actually out yet we can't know the final thoughts he will follow on this subject. If he charges for simply another profession though I have no problem with that because there won't be a monthly fee to pay, and his games are/ have always been excellent because they are different than the level grinders that most games are today. Look at UO, there is the virtue system in place, that has been there since I started playing the game, no other game does that. Many of the towns are tied to a virtue since the regular console games, along with colors, spiritual chants (om, om, stuff like that), symbols, heroes (Dupre, Iolo, etc), and so forth. The end of Exodus is a card game, not some big boss guy with 5 billion hit points... anyway I'm getting off track. These are reasons I don't mind paying for the outer stuff he may charge for when the games come out. If I had to I'd pay a subscription fee but I'm so glad there won't be because I will be able to play the game as much as I want to and not worry about losing a lot of time, my house crumbling, or missing out on roleplay that may happen.

 

I find in game microtransactions to be very immersion breaking. Most all Pay to Win games are constantly pestering you to buy potions, exp boosts, keys and the like. I myself would much rather pay a sub fee and not be reminded every 5minutes that I am playing a free game.

On a side note... It is interesting these days what people consider Pay to Win. Many people seem to think that as long as you give a free player the possibility through time investment to earn the same things as someone who shells out hundreds of dollars, that makes it okay... How?

Its not "Winning" if you get the "opportunity" to earn the same thing a month down the road that a paying player purchased day one.

 

This is my understanding:

Backers get the full game, some even get up to 5 games depending on pledge level. Anyone who buys after the game launches will also get the full first game at retail pricing.

People who download a "free" edition after the game launches will get a limited game, so they can try before they buy. It's unclear if the "buy" will simply be retail price to get the full game, or can be done in chunks based on what you want out of the "rest" of the full game. Perhaps over time, those players may have end up buying the full game cumulatively so it ends up just being retail pricing, or buying it in chunks over time will cost slightly more. Lots of variables here how the game will be "limited" to the free edition. Locked skill trees you can unlock for $5? Or capped skilled trees you can uncap for $5? Whatever you purchase, it will simply just enable you to be at the same level as anyone who bought the game outright.

Beyond that first full game, however you obtained it (backer, retail purchase, try before you buy, etc), there will likely be additional ways that offer content for nominal fees, such as cosmetic / decorative items that weren't already in the full game. Perhaps there will be additional skill trees, professions, races, etc. that also weren't already in the full game. I believe those will be charged for at a nominal fee. It's also unclear here if all of this additional content will be included in later episodes, as each episode really is its own self-contained fully fledged game that stands on its own.

And of course, everything is speculation at this point and nothing is set in stone until launch.