Please Do Not Add Vendor Search Through Lua

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wilfred, Apr 8, 2020.

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  1. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    This has been discussed to death and I've yet to see any meaningful objections to adding searchability.
    Vendors who sell 'service' - attractive storefronts, roleplaying the merchant, sending coupons to frequent shoppers, etc. - will still be able to do this, and the people to whom that sort of thing matters rather than straight price, will still shop there first. For everyone who doesn't care, there's a search. Its win/win.

    I don't like the idea of tying it to LUA - it needs to be integrated to be fair. Make a market board or somesuch item that has to be bought/crafted and placed and that's where you search from, rather than letting people run it 'on the fly'. There's your monetization opportunity. Sell "fancy" ones. Have a whole variety of different colors. They will become a staple of every home, guild hall, crafting area. Put them in NPC towns too. Problem sorted.

    I really hope that we don't end up with another half-baked system though. That's probably my main concern. A search without prices is a whole lot of work to implement a system that is a half measure at best. I have gold to spend. I want to know where I can spend it and don't want to run all over the world seeing people who have listed things "for sale" at prices nobody would ever buy (yes, we have silver ore here! - it will cost 1 million gold) just to pull people in to look at their other crap. With commission free vendors that is only the -first- abuse that comes to mind. Transparency, please.

    I don't see any benefit in making it local or regional either - you're just causing the player to have to replicate the same steps several times. Even if you just did it by continent that's still 3 repetitions (and at least 3 load screens to travel...) and it just doesn't seem necessary - there's no benefit. Good fair prices and consistent stock will attract people to the same towns "just to browse." Town that never comes up on the search, cause it doesn't have anything at a reasonable price, not so much. This is how it should be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  2. Wilfred

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    The main reason I prefer a town or regional search is because some players
    like searching for good deals, and buying up low priced items to resell.

    A universal search would ruin their fun.

    With a town or regional search, there would still be opportunity for them to play the arbitrage game,
    while also allowing the in game market to function reasonably well.

    I agree that there would be some annoyance in a town or regional search,
    but I think it would only be a very slight annoyance.
    And a little friction is to be expected in a medieval setting. :)

    I'm not really opposed to a universal search myself,
    But I think a town or regional search would be best for the game.
    Since it would enable a fun experience for the most number of players.
     
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  3. jschoice

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    I dont care one way or the other about how the system gets implemented because a global vendor search is great for the economy.

    But why hate on LUA. Most MMORPs these days allow for player created add in . I mean as someone who plays ESO I couldn't live without my Addon ons and I hear WoW players are the same way. As long as there was a safe and easy way to use these features I am all for it. Player created stuff always makes for better features.

    I also dont know why the global search has to be in game instead of a website. PoE uses a web based market search as well as a few other games.
     
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  4. Curt

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    Would like it to be easier to find the vendors in a town.
    I would like that on the map you could see where various signs was. If a vendor have blacksmith type of goods
    place a blacksmith sign near and make it show up on the map
    And same with the other signs, a map filter that show all locations where the sign of type X is and then you know where
    you can find a carpenter vendor for example.
     
  5. Ostvel

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    I agree this should be a core mechanic to the game and not manipulable (yes I made that word up ^_^) by folks with lua access, ......UNLESS the lua access can do only one thing! only access the same features of the core mechanic implemented as if you were using them without lua.
     
  6. Wilfred

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    Only if there is a time delay on the Lua data.

    Otherwise someone could write an app to ping them whenever something is listed below market price,
    so they would have an advantage to go buy up all the good deals faster than players without Lua.
     
  7. Drilikath

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    So we will continue to have a struggling game, that caters to the 100 or so people who do not love vendor search, mean while the potential 500k players that would play are just going to just bypass this game, and or never return because all they want is to not waste all day searching for what did you say that LUA guy grabbing supplies for 1gp cheaper because he has LUA, Terrible analogy.

    It already happens in this game, I know of 3-4 people that rip people off, They buy super low, and sell higher/past the avg price range. All because of location.

    Our numbers are starting to drop, and New World beta just came out. A lot of people left this game for Amazon. We been having this debate for a long time. Why have all these polls, ask question, see that the community poll states we want full search and price, but a few of you bigger names are 100% against it.

    I hear reasons of Location, Some like to do it, eco will be jacked. WRONG, stop scaring people. Fear is not the answer. We have 0 clue what would happen, you all are Assuming. We know what has happened in other game, this is not the other games.

    Location does not matter, Whoever likes to wander all day, can NOT use the search. If some person wants to sit 24/7 with Lua/Game running and keep the eco going, so be it. All i know is every vendor has the same stuff, Artifacts, Gems, Food, Armor/Weps , crafting comps, Sprinkle in some deco, and Poof ALL are the same. Price is the only thing in Sota that separates each player. 5 years I have yet to run a good vendor. Port keeps jacking the drop rates/flow/and price. Not US.

    Delayed data is the same. You show up and the item is gone/sold. Wasted time. Wasted system. All wasted.
     
  8. Drilikath

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  9. Wilfred

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    Lua should not be used for actual buying and selling, that should be in game.

    But Lua would be good for tracking historical data, so someone could make a webpage
    that tracks SotA commodities with price and volume data.

    We currently have this:

    SotA Item Price List
    http://www.shroudoftheavatar.net/sotaItemPriceList

    It would be nice to have graphs like this with price and volume data for all the commodities in SotA:

    Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD)
    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AMD
     
  10. Drilikath

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    The sotaItemPrice is not good, nor is any other tool. What you fail to see is that I, and Anyone can manipulate those vendor tools, and I did. Coto for me sold for 250 per. I sold Millions of Gp worth. What are coto worth in game 195gp at best/200gp i seen cici buying, and selling at 210 today.
     
  11. Wilfred

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    That's why having the actual price and volume data exposed through Lua (with a time delay) would be useful.

    If we could get the actual price and volume date for all in game sales, then the tools would be accurate.

    Edit:
    Never mind, I was wrong. As Drilikath stated below, the tools would still not be accurate, because someone can just set up multiple accounts, and buy and sell between vendors on those accounts to make it look like there is huge sales volume at high prices, when really they are just trading back and forth with their own vendors, so the real market price and volume could be much different.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
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  12. Fetid SirDidy

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    Anyone who plays on any consistent basis and sells or buys/ keeps vendor stocked, etc knows where the market is for items. You price on low end to get rid of quickly or you list on the high end because you think it will go eventually. Or..you place ridiculously high and who knows I guess there are ppl that come along and buy it cause they want it.

    im all for global search. Would have loved it before I found my current spot. I think it will give incentive for ppl to populate random dead towns to draw people there. Other than the extra cost to convert lots to place anywhere, there could be a draw to having free reign to set up shop in a dead but cool out of the way npc town.

    cotos are +\- 210 atm. Sell fast at a lower price or list at 250 and get someone who can’t wait as you must have
     
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  13. Drilikath

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    Take 5-6 accounts, with 10m gold on it, the other the "seller" list items for the price you want, I.E. 250, buy all the stock, and repeat. Manipulate the market. It is that easy. Anyone who used that tool(s) that track sales, all of a sudden i made 100m in sales in 1 day, and sold all my coto. But in reality i sold 0 items. Listed Items/Price at all times matters.
     
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  14. Mylady ‘Gin Gin Darlin

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    If one person is abusing accounts and the economy like that I think that would be seen as an exploit and that user monitored, given a warning and even banned if they continue to offend.
     
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  15. majoria70

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    Also not everyone is trying to exploit or manipulate the market. For example a casual player has a vender in a town and doesn't go shopping or price comparing, crafts most of their own stuff and tries to price reasonably but doesn't care to take time to see what market prices are. If there is such a thing they don't know it. They are just in their own little separate world. If there are going to be market values the world needs a clue and remember everyone has their own reality. We just need to know the rules which this game is bad about telling you. Like 'you need to go get in the corner'as some say to children for bad behavior.
     
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  16. Wilfred

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    Very good point, thanks!

    I edited my previous post above.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
  17. SmokerKGB

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    This is "Why" we need a global search and/or a WoW style Auction House, so that everyone can compete in the IG economy...

    When players "price check" items by going to off site venues, a Monopoly is created and everyone prices their items at the same price, so there really is no need to shop around because it makes no difference from who's vendor you purchase from because the price is the same everywhere...

    When you place a "real" cash value on the items, players would rather do that, then sell for IGG, so the IG economy is destroyed...

    And to top it off, you set the evil eye of "real" government taxation upon you, if you fail to declare all those small amount transactions on your end of year tax filings... Just beware of the IRS in the USA...
     
  18. Ostvel

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    What you look at is volume over time, you then learn to ignore spikes like that that then drop off, in other words you can see what's going on
     
  19. CICI

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    Use the same vendor search as Star Wars Galaxies! Go test it (SWG Legends)
    This is a mmo players do trade for a profit! it's fun :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
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  20. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    @Wilfred Having a LUA search does not take you out of the game or to a website. LUA is inside the game. I think you are thinking of the external API which is different then LUA.
     
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