Please don't require multiple sub-materials to make one item.

I enjoyed Ultima Onlines crafting system and it has been the only game I have ever enjoyed crafting in because there was not an absurd amount of requirements to make an item. The materials to make an items were self explanatory and if you were going to make something you could imagine what was required without having to read some game manual. If i wanted to make a wooden shield I chopped some wood. I didn't have get leather straps or metal, i just needed the main ingredient.

I really don't want to see a crafting system where in order to make some plate armor i need to make some cloth under piece and some leather straps and what not. It just becomes tedious.

 

Most importantly Ultima never cared about the conservation of mass and energy. Because, as we all know Iron Ore is a LOT heavier than ingots.

But yes a simplified crafting system IS best. Although I wouldn't mind complex ingredient for "artifact" crafting.

 

I suppose that makes sense. But on a skill leveling perspective, simple is best.

I played a free UO shard (Zulu Hotel) where they implemented Rituals. This required you to first find the ritual book and the individual ritual scrolls as well as a ritual robe. You then had to perform the ritual on an item of your choice to apply some magic ability to the item. The whole process was complex where you had to step a certain way and say a certain phrase and if you messed up (said something wrong, stepped wrong way or skill fail) you were struck dead and the items could be destroyed. This was interesting because the end result was a unique awesome item whether it be to increase the damage or add an effect, or what not.

That, I thought was pretty cool.

 

I understand the desire for simple crafting system, but worry that it will produce a lame economy. A simple system requires less participation from other players and this isn't good for an economy.

 

If they want to make a complex system, fine but multiple steps to make one item is not complex its just added tedium.

 

I think people don't want but one ingredient to manufacture any given object due the time it takes to gather a bunch of resources. This isn't a problem for manufacturers if the can put out bids for people to contract their services. Having someone cart the necessary supplies across New Britannia for the manufacturer would be a big help to the manufacture, but also to the player making the delivery. It gets product out faster and involves more people.

 

I agree with Lord peregrine; A simple crafting system would be nice; but as you get into higher tiers of crafting; it should require more materials. X steel sword of X should not require just a steel sword; but then again the hilt doesn't NEED to be encrusted with diamonds. (Though it would be a nice feature, and would add customization.)

 

Make the crafting system as complex as possible, I like a good challenge and something to keep me busy when I'm not progressing through the plot/finished the game.

 

The crafting system can meet everybody's need by doing as Bayien replies. A simple system for cheaper goods and a complex system for more intricate, or luxury items. It helps create jobs for those who wouldn't mind carting resources around and gives the customer/roll player more choices on what to spend his/her money on, be it something of need like a sword, or just jewelry.

 

I think the problem I have with complex crafting systems is really the inventory management. If I need to have 12 different raw resources, combine them into a combination of 8 sub-components, combine those into 3 different sub-components, and then finally get to make a sword, it gets too unwielding to manage the 23 different "pieces" of sword production. And if those pieces are different for a two-handed sword, shield, helmet, pretty soon there are hundreds of sub-components.

On the other hand, simple crafting systems are often TOO simple. Mine iron, make ingots, make any weapon/armor you want. Resource gathering is simple a time sink, and nothing that you would really want to specialize in. You go to the best blacksmith in the world to get the best sword, but you go to the best miner in the world to get...what...a slightly higher ore to ingot conversion ratio? I also like the idea of having to get a leather strap from a leatherworker to make a shield, as it encourages interaction with other people.

A balance between the two extremes is what I think would work best. Crafting professions shoudl rely on each other for some sub-materials, but keep the sub-materials generic enough so that we don't need to manage 100s of components.

 

Three ideas:

1) Limit materials mineable per day. This allows craftsmen to post bounties on materials which adventurers can then collect and turn in for them. Alternatively, craftsmen will ask adventurers to bring their own materials. (Alternatively to that, craftsmen will whine relentlessly about how they can't get enough materials to keep their shops stocked, but that happens anyway. We're gamers. Whining is our official pasttime.)

2) All weapons degrade, for economic balance. Asheron's Call had a problem with this; weapons were randomly spawned with enchantments of varying strength, but because a weapon you found was yours forever, the trade value of all but the absolute cream of the crop soon dropped to nothing. Additionally, more powerful weapons are more fragile, thus enforcing a power/reliability tradeoff.

3) Instead of multiple steps to make complex items, create complex items by upgrading simpler ones. I used an example from Arcanum in a previous thread: Quartestaff + Capacitor = Shocking Staff + Tesla Coil = Tesla Rod + Elephant Gun = Tesla Rifle. The rifle is your end result, but the item is useful at every step along the way. This allows for both mechanical simplicity and complex results.

 

In reference to the comment that resource gathering is a time sink I agree and what makes it near impossible is the dual scale map. We won't be able to see resources as we wonder. The fix to this is that NPC do all of the resource gathering and have it available for auction at various auction houses place around the continents.

As a crafter you just have to haul your purchases, or hire someone else to haul it for you.

 

Resource gathering as a time sink is an honest fact, but it's one that mirrors reality. Mining is a time sink, but transporting goods is also a time sink, so that's not really an alternative is it? For that matter, double-clicking is a time sink if you think about it. Without a limiting factor, suddenly there is no market, surely you all understand that.

That said, what would you replace it with? Buying from NPC's?!? Oh, man, that's harsh...see, because I'm a new player, so how am I supposed to make due without some money to start? You want me to go kill monsters? Well, that's decidedly something that this project's figurehead has been vehemently against from the outset. Besides that, you've suddenly taken all of the "game" out from between logging in and making all the swords that I've sold since I logged out yesterday. It's almost like there's no point in playing at all...except to collect all that cash, I guess. It'd be like playing minecraft, only instead of carefully exploring the dark and unknown caves under your house searching for the materials you need to create the next most useful set of items and all that jazz, I just walk for 10 minutes, take out stacks of wood and stone, walk back, make a million pickaxes. The end.

Anyway, my point is that if you want to replace mining, etc. as an activity, you're not going to be able to do it reasonably without either an extremely complex crafting system, or an extremely elegant way of putting "game" between your login screen and your finished handiwork. Having to walk to the iron store to pick up some iron and walk back isn't that solution.

 

We do know that you can't see any detail as you roam around in the zoomed out view, so finding specific resources isn't all that rewarding if you just run from point to point. That takes away the fun of discover.

I just finished listening to Markee Dragon's interview with RG. At some point -- mid way perhaps -- RC mentioned "central devices" and that they would be run by the game. The first one of these devices was "auction house". It remains to be seen if they become a reality, or how these goods reach the market place. Are they carted in by players, or do they magically appear out of thin air?

I wonder how much of a stretch it would be to substitute the word "central" with control.

 

@BellosTheMighty - You have some pretty interesting ideas that I'd like to comment on.

<i>1) Limit materials mineable per day. This allows craftsmen to post bounties on materials which adventurers can then collect and turn in for them. Alternatively, craftsmen will ask adventurers to bring their own materials.</i>
As much as I don't agree with this idea, I think you raise some valid points in that craftsmen or merchants can make bulk order deeds but they would need the help of a collective group/or hirelings. Only reason why I don't agree is because as a player, I feel that if I decide today I'm going to mine for as long as my worldly body can take, I should be able to. Of course, there are built in restrictions, such as needing backup tools for when that pickaxe breaks, or when using a special extractor pickaxe it occasionally may spawn toxic versions of whatever you were trying to mine (ala Gargoyle pickaxes).

<i>2) All weapons degrade, for economic balance.</i>
A few of the devs have already stated that there will be a durability/wear and tear system so that's great!

<i>3) Instead of multiple steps to make complex items, create complex items by upgrading simpler ones. I used an example from Arcanum in a previous thread: Quartestaff + Capacitor = Shocking Staff + Tesla Coil = Tesla Rod + Elephant Gun = Tesla Rifle. The rifle is your end result, but the item is useful at every step along the way. This allows for both mechanical simplicity and complex results.</i>
I love this idea, especially if each stage of the item is useful in some way. This complex items would of course need complex/rare additional resources to create which would keep people looking for them.

I also agree with @Urganite that gathering resources is just an honest "timesink" that will just be that. It will be repetitive at some point, but that is just the way it is... but in a game like this, you want to be engaged while doing it. I have suggested random encounters while gathering, but let's push it even further and say <a href="https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=crafting-on-the-go-via-tabletphone/#post-3265">why not gather on the go via tablet/phone?</a> That would be a great and innovative way of extending the experience.