PvP Should Be Like This:

I agree 100% and thats what this whole thread was for. To basically say hey bring this pvp style to the game, BUT make it a choice of what server you play on.

and

Players can go back and fourth to those two servers but have separate characters on each of the servers so the world economies aren't damaged from inflation.

 

You are using this argument over and over again, how do you know that?

First off: In a PvP with full loot the kills will loot the equipment ans simply sell it at the market, at least if equipment are worth something. That way will PvP will not make a huge inpact on the economy.

How the economy will work have a lot of factors. If you look at EVE for example, the largest player economy in a MMO and works quite good even tough you can both collect and craft in without even go close to PvP arias.

From what I have read about equipment in SotA I can say that is one step to have a better economy model. Before we know that gazillion of other factors that affects the economy we cant say how it will work, PvP or no PvP.

 

The contention here is that PvP has an impact on the economy. In UO it did, until Tram was added, then it only had an impact on Fel.

SotA has several differences from the UO model and to make a separate server to preserve this style you want is to change those differences to match the UO model. It's not just a simple split and flag everyone PvP. There would be 2 different games to maintain, 2 different overheads.

Take a look at all the differences and see how they can be put together to ensure that your play style is preserved, the UO model does not fit here.

 

I hear you loud and clear, but as was stated by the development team (Da Devs as we call them in Chicago), there will be only one single, solitary, lonely server for all. With this in mind, I am recommending my ideas for a system that will work for everyone, not for myself or even just half of the population of the game.

I think we should all work towards ideas that everyone can work with, right?

IMO it seems as though you are in PvP for the loot, not for the PvP. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the sticking point in most of these threads. Why is loot so important?

 

Honestly, I think a lot of it comes from the WoW design. I don't say that negatively, since I played WoW myself and enjoyed many different aspects, but they did really drive home the focus of loot, versus your actual character. You needed decent loot to get into PvP battlegrounds and arenas, which led to more powerful loot so you could then go get even MORE powerful loot. I really am hoping (and signs look good so far) that loot will be loot, regardless of situations.

It's kind of a vicious cycle, which one factor I've always felt was the lack of housing and the focus more on a class, than the actual character behind it. UO was very unique and pretty cool for having YOU be the main focus, where loot was important but never really a consideration if you fought monsters or fellow men. If the item was an upgrade and a shiny piece of awesome, you strapped up and went about your business accordingly.

Housing also was important because it opened up player communities that had open world combat all the time. PKs and antis would face off around the vendors and citizens in the areas, and often the only "safe" zone was an ally's home to repair and replenish. Lacking that, I've always felt WoW (and some other games) really lacked the same connection to the world around it. Sure, you traveled distant lands, but you lived out of your bank storage. Compared to settling back in your very personal and decorated home, surrounded by the artifacts and memories of your adventures, the local inn felt very sterile.

 

Well, a lot of people just like to pillage their kill, so there's that..

If the game's not reliant upon gear differential, then that's another thing. PvP looting (even partial) keeps the economy rolling, and helps crafters establish customer bases -- the freshly revived seek new gear more often than they would in a PvE-centric world, and if most gear has a minimal role, most of it won't be terribly expensive.

If gold/resources are lootable, it strongly discourages gold farming/exploiting for obvious reasons.

But mostly, I think, a lot of people enjoy the pillage. There's only a limited sense of reward otherwise. Risk, too.

Sent from my EVA Unit-01 using Tapatalk

 

Hes trying to say that the person will jump back and forth between PVP, It matters to pvp, because that's an easy way out when you start a fight and start getting your butt kicked! but if i understand right there will be a time period you will have to wait before you can revert to PVE again.

 

i think that's BS! both sides had an effect on the economy, people mined up all the ore they could and made crap and farmed gold because it was safe for them to do that! then on top of that both sides started selling stuff off site! that is where the economy crumbled,you could get anything you wanted from an online place like UO gold etc,,, didn't need to grind or work for it! there is where your economy argument lies! that's what killed the economy! I wish youd stop blaming the PVPr as you have done over and over! anyone can go look at your posts and see the same ole bs posted "pvp's fault etc.."

 

You just repeated exactly the point I was making... how is it that my post is blaming PvP and yours is not? I said PvP's impact on the econ is avoidable once Tram was added.

Not once did I blame PvP for UO's economy issues, I blame the game design being PvP centric then giving a way to avoid PvP without adding in controls to replace the control that PvP represented.

Is my English that confusing?

 

I think Ristra has a valid point. You can't talk about the impact of PvP in Trammel, but for the most part, other than duels and guild wars (which I think were still available), there wasn't much PvP in Trammel. Were factions allowed? After the split, I only played Siege Perilous, so my Trammel/Felucia lore is a bit sketchy.

 

right here once again your blaming PVP for the economy down fall, so NO im not saying what you said, heres how it worked let me throw some real facts out to you. Trammies(PVE) sold the leathers, ores, regeants, wood, cloth on UOgold all the resources! why? because there was no risk to gather! (PVP) felucca bought that from UO gold made runics for thier PVP gear and in turn took that and put it on UOgold for purchase! So there you go thats what happened to the economy on UO! so stop blaming the PVP for everything! It impacted tram as well! Im clarifying your accusation that i just said what you did! I actually didnt say what you were saying, i blame both pvp and pve and the uogolds sellers! so in essence the money in uo was not being funneled though the game but instead an outside service!

 

I think you need to understand the real facts as well, of what happened after the split, and yes some shards still had the factions and guild warring

 

@Owain - from memory Guild wars were still allowed. I don't think factions counted in Trammel, at least initially. I may very well be wrong and didn't play for terribly long afterwards... Its been a long time!

Yes, my first post after lurking for quite a while. Hi

I was a UO gamer who loved PvP. My connection was never good enough back in the day to be consistently competitive but I held my own and loved it nonetheless. My involvement was generally not as a PK, but more in guild wars etc. I was on the receiving end more than the dealing end when it came to actual PKing.

That said, I loved the risky part of pre-Trammel UO. I just accepted it as part of the game. Yeah, it could be annoying if you lost an hour or more worth of hard work or if you were just about to log off and got ganked. It was all part of it to me. Obviously others are different - to them it seems to really upset them/annoy them/ruin their experience to be PK'd. I don't deny it could be damn hard and very frustrating starting out but I guess I saw the 'fun' in it. Obviously we all have different tastes! Trammel is a testament to that as it provided people with the experience they wanted and gave them control of their game play. Against the PvE in UO, it was pretty hard to die!! I thought Trammel was poorly implemented but it solved the problems of people leaving due to griefing and helped solve the 'housing market'. I'd call Trammel a business decision! Designed to keep players and subscriptions up. I can't blame any company for wanting that but I do feel it created as many problems as it solved - predominately damaging the economy, the PvP scene as well splitting the population and losing some of the 'community' feel of the game. Others will disagree and they're well entitled to!

As for PvP, I really do feel like SotA can't yet be judged. I have faith the devs really do want PvP in the game. From what I can gather they are trying to encourage people to undertake it, or at least open themselves up to the risk of it. For doing so they will be rewarded! If I have to go to an instance which flags me to be PK'd so I can mine some rare ore I want/need for new armour then damn straight I'll give it a go! Others times I may wait and let someone else try and get it for me before ambushing them and taking it for myself!! Obviously not everyone will want to engage in this part of the game but I'm sure they'll still get the item if they want it - they may just have to pay for it. However, they may just be tempted to give it a try and, who knows, actually enjoy it! Similarly with the 'contraband' quest bandied about, I like the potential this gives us.

The problem with visualising a 'new' system is that its pretty hard not to just compare it to what we already know. Add to that the fact that we all have vastly different tastes and someone else's perfect game is terrible for the next bloke (or girl!). I accept the fact the PvP here isn't going to be like pre-Trammel UO. And I think splitting servers in SotA probably just creates much the same problem - people who are even 50/50 on open-PvP will take the safer option. I honestly think if the risk/reward ratio is balanced, then enough people will be encouraged to open themselves up to the risk of PKing. This won't be easy to manage but I believe it can be done. If the devs pull it off then you keep the PKs happy and provide the immersion and narrative required to engage to RP/PvE community in that part of the game.

My point is that while SotA seems it won't be pre-Trammel open world UO gank-fest, as far as a PvP system that satisfies as many people as possible is concerned, it could well be the next best thing.

 

I played Siege Perilous as well, though Catskills received far more of my time pre-Trammel.

Of the vocal UO-style PvP types here, how many played on Siege Perilous? Of those that did, how much time was spent there relative to the other shards? Subsequently, for what reasons was more time given to one type of shard or the other?

I also played UO prior to any sort of murder system being put in place. Is there advocacy for this type of 100% open PvP as well?

Spoiler

At risk of turning those questions into rhetoric (i truly would like to get a grasp on the numbers), i will tip my hand here. I honestly feel given how systems are starting to look that people who desire this style of play will find it by simply staying in the PvP hexes. This sounds far better to me than to have multiple servers that wither and die from lack of use.

 

I played siege for awhile but spent most of my time on lake superior and Chesapeake, played way before tram and still play now, stay in pvp most of the time there! Loot is better in fel!

 

You do know that SotA will have a player driven economy? If the market are over flooded with one type of merchandise you will not be able to sell it and therefore not make any money. So if to many players mine a lot they wont be able to sell their ore, if there are to many weapon smiths the prices of weapons will go down and might even be able to sell their weapons, and so on for all types of merchandise.

In UO you would allays be able to sell you merchandise as the store so there is one huge difference. Then add the difference with durability and you have another huge thing that affects the economy.

 

I think I understand it well enough to appreciate Ristra's point that PvP didn't have a large impact on the economy in Trammel after the split for most of the population. That was the point of the split, wasn't it, so lumberjacks and miners could chop and dig in peace, and PvE players could farm away?

 

you could also just make stuff put it in a chest and sell it to your friends if it isnt available on the market. I dont know how they will control that, i normally find weapons, and stash em away in chests etc.. so i will always have some if the market falls and gets too expensive, plus i could sell to one of my friends for a decent price and because im selling more, can make more at those times. Or barter for other things etc.. So if it get to that point look me up ill have stuff stashed away!

 

no, the split from what i understood was because of housing and also, people didn't want pvp! too many ganked individuals, but it opened more sales in housing for UO as well. (that is just my take on it so it could've been for other reasons as well from what i described) Also could be just too much complaining about open world pvp? so they wanted to satisfy everyone! those are the relevant reasons i would suppose, but by doing that everyone was happy with "their" world. Problem with that, that i saw was that Fel gave more quantity of resources something like 50 feathers on a harpy in tram, but 100 in fel. I guess that was the risk vs. reward thing, things dropped more gold, and resources. If you had a house in fel you would be good because if someone attacked you you could always run to your house to get away, also great for storing up all the resources, to sell on vendors in trammel! So prices went up in tram because of that i suppose as well? but the vendors in fel were still around decent prices. Also people could buy gold and stuff from UOgold, im pretty sure all those caused the econmy to fall, but from both pvp, and pve. (see i can have a decent conversation at times)

 

So you think all the complaints about rampant PKs and griefing and people leaving the game had nothing to do with it?

Perhaps your grip on the real facts isn't quite as firm as you thought.