Release 67 Feedback (NUE)

Another long love letter to the devs -- those afraid of teal deer can pass on by...

I was disappointed and concerned to hear from one of Chris' recent streams that y'all are just about done with the NUE revisions. This concerns me because some of the recent NUE decisions feel like a very wrong direction to me. I could just about tolerate them, thinking they were a temporary move while you worked out the problems, but what Chris said didn't sound like you were still working out problems, it sounded like you want to stay on this current course permanently. :-(

I'm really happy about going directly to character creation now, instead of having to go through the Magic Mirror in game. Unfortunately, while this does save us a bunch of loading time and get us right into "ourselves," it also puts one of the weaknesses of the game at the forefront. When players went to the Isle of Storms first, their first impression would be the beautiful, mysterious Isle of Storms; the problems would appear soon enough, but they had some good to balance it out. Now, a new player's first several seconds -- perhaps longer if they try to refine their appearance instead of accepting the defaults -- is going to be stuck on "Wow, the appearance options here suck" with no good experience to neutralize the bad.

(Wish 1008 had come out a few days earlier so I could have seen what the eye color change was! Hopefully, the selection looks a little more human now.)

I complained when I first started about the railroading and "Big Brother"-ish aspects of Arabella's and the Oracle's dialogue on the Isle of Storms, and of course there were a lot of problems with Anais' tutorial. I accept that both could be tricky to rewrite, and when the Isle disappeared, I initially assumed that it would eventually return in a better state. Now it sounds like it won't return at all, which is a shame. The Isle and the Oracle were intriguing; now there isn't anything comparatively neat to catch my attention and make me willing to overlook the flaws. The railroading hasn't been removed after all; it's just been shifted a bit and replaced with the clunky handholding of the rescue-Charlotte quest. Nor is there any clear hook for me the way the blazing-sky atmosphere provided in the Battle of Highvale.

Some of that, of course, is personal preference; another person may love the landscape of Solace Bridge Outskirts as much as I love Highvale's, and I DO prefer most of the NPCs on the Perennial Coast to the ones in Highvale/Resolute. But currently, I have to get a character all the way to Ardoris before I find anything really interesting enough to make me keep going.

And of course, our choices have been taken away almost entirely. You are still encouraging people to do all three outskirts, so if you don't want to bring back the Isle of Storms as a starter area, can't we please at least have a simple starter screen that lets us choose which path to begin with? If our choices are supposed to matter, let us make some, and not all start out with identical characters.

 

Starting Inventory -- I'm glad to see all the free reagents have disappeared, thank you for changing that! The starting character didn't need them yet anyway, and it gives new players less to learn all at once. I'm equally glad to lose the free chain armor. I'm less happy about losing the free cloth armor; it took way too long to get decent (and affordable by a newbie) clothes for my noncombatant mages, and the cloth armor was a nice alternative to everyone wearing leather. And it wasn't overpowered for starting out like the chain armor was.

[My ladylike mage STILL hasn't found anything decent (and affordable by a newbie) that she can wear while out gathering. The red dress was affordable and is lovely in town, but quite inappropriate for the wilds, and she's not thrilled about having to wear skin-tight leggings out in public. The peasant clothing doesn't seem to be on the general market affordably yet, at least in the newbie areas, and the skirts are too short regardless. I'd love to have a simple, long, woolen skirt that matches with the leather or cloth armor or cloth tunic.]

And speaking of clothing -- I know clothing glitches are considered a known issue, but seriously, some glitches are more important than others. The leather chest armor that everyone starts with glitches through the common cloak that newbies get from the Outskirts quests. And the glitch is on the back shoulder, so newbies are liable to be staring directly at it for their first few hours. That ought to be a bit of a higher priority to fix then pieces of some mix-and-match outfit that the devs couldn't predict someone would want to wear.

Back to inventory -- I still think we ought to have a way to choose a smaller set of starting tools. My suggestion would be to give everyone the gathering tools, and then let them choose two to four of the others that appeal to them from a starting bundle or some such. Also, why do all the tools start out equipped? The new character isn't going to be using most of them any time soon, we don't have that many hands, and having them equipped puts them at risk of durability loss before the new player figures out to unequip them before risking death.

Desperately waiting for non-tradable items to be place-able, so we can put all those starting tools in a container. Also, why are the Known Issues and Player Events items non-tradable? We don't need to carry them around forever, but it would help if we could stick them on a shelf somewhere to refer to when needed.

Players are still not receiving a New Player Handbook anywhere in the current NUE. However, I'm pretty sure there's still a loading tip telling them to expect one.

 

Skills -- What's the logic behind new characters starting with death magic but not water or moon magic? I can accept starting with sun magic because the Light spell is needed, but Tap Soul isn't the same level of essential. Why polearms but not shields? Why all the crafting skills EXCEPT fishing and agriculture, which are common in RL? Again, newbies don't need every option given to them at once, they just need any option available -- let US choose whether we already know polearms or not, whether we grew up on a farm and learned basic agriculture or sewing at our grandmother's knee.

I like the idea of the automaton. Other small towns have automaton trainers, so it's believable that Solace Bridge would too, and also that since he's not living, the undead wouldn't have targeted him. And he brings in just that small taste of science fiction that we lost when we lost the Oracle on the Isle.

However, I don't like the execution of the automaton trainer. He ought to be hiding out in the tower or something, not standing around reading a book as if it were an ordinary boring day. He may not react to a battle the same way a human would, but he ought to have some reaction to it, be able to give the player some idea of what happened here. And I'm not at all happy that he doesn't train anything but archery. Again, let us make our own choices about the kind of person we are.

 

And the Battle of Solace Bridge itself...

I wish I could compare the old and new landscapes to pinpoint the changes. I do like the newer version, mostly. It seems prettier and more colorful, more like a place where farmers used to live. The same applies to Solace Bridge Outskirts; however, they also both look a little less distinctive, more like other places I've seen in the game. And I don't like blocking off the river at (115, 77.5, -105.6); the stone barrier doesn't mesh well with the landscape, looks pasted in afterwards -- and why block it off anyway? Overall, the landscape changes are nice, though.

However, I'm not so sure about thrusting characters into the action with so little tutorial available beforehand. From the moment you arrive at the rift, you're passing lootable corpses (and at this stage you need all the loot you can get). However, there's no tip telling you how to loot them. Perhaps this isn't a problem for people who can intuitively double-click. On my laptop, the double-click rarely works so I rely on the E key, which I wouldn't know about if I were starting as a true newbie.

You also have undead trying to kill you from the moment you start, but the tip about the Z key doesn't appear until you're halfway over the main bridge -- long after you need it. I can double-click to attack a character sometimes, but not others. I think this has something to do with range, but even on my first character, it took me several hours of playing to get the hang of that. So entering combat now without having had any introduction to the combat bar (which doesn't show any obvious combat glyphs on it), to the Z key, to the character sheet or inventory to know what I'm carrying, or to the difference between green and blue cursors... is disconcerting. The avatar starts auto-attacking when they get in close enough range, but sometimes that doesn't happen until the zombie is right on top of me. Even when the autoattack starts earlier, it still leaves me feeling as if I have no control over my avatar at all, can do nothing but wait until something attacks me then watch the computer defend me, while I as a player just sit there instead of, you know, playing. Again, it feels like you've taken away all our choices and volition.

Let's see... we're told from the beginning that we have to get away from this battlefield. So now ahead of us there's a burning village and a bridge littered with corpses OR there's a pretty landscape with no obvious danger and an apparent trail leading off to the upper left. It's a game, so I don't expect the pretty trail to be without danger. But since the game is telling me to get away from the battlefield, I'm going to assume it wants me to take the trail AWAY from the burning village (perhaps to return later). But that trail peters into a dead end, so I go a little further. I'm way tired of bumping into that red tree by now, but still, explorers gonna explore.

[Red tree bug report: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/red-tree-in-solace-bridge.156842/]

The second trail is pretty blatantly a road, but you get stopped by collision or something before you can reach what clearly looks like the exit you're supposed to take to get away from the battlefield. Why oh why is the game telling me to get away from it and look for safety while also railroading me INTO the battlefield? Do one or the other, please, but not both. The third road looks even MORE like a road, but peters out even quicker. Still, these roads-that-aren't-roads do give you a pretty nice view of the village. If I have to go into danger, I'm glad for the chance to reconnoiter it first. Following the river as far as I can, I get attacked three times. Still have no idea how to put my bow away, how to control the combat, how to loot the corpses, or how to heal. I did, however, have a tip about the journal show up right after a combat, although it says nothing useful. The "first skeleton" it mentions was actually the second skeleton and the third mob (the first being a zombie).

 

Hurrah! I DID get the "you hear faint crying" message even when I entered the village from the exploration side instead of the bridge. However, I'm going to pretend I didn't, because I know the tavern is coming up. It makes a lot more sense to explore the tavern WITHOUT Charlotte in tow. Seriously, we just rescued her from one burning building and now you want us to drag her into another? That's what people will end up doing if they follow the expected path into town via the Commons Bridge and follow the blatant instructions. Also, I still hate that big blue you're-too-dumb-to-open-a-door-on-your-own highlighting -- even more than I hate being forced to act out of character by bringing a kid with me into a burning building (or leaving her alone for longer, both options are really out of character).

You are never going to convince me that it's a good idea to have multiple, identical-appearing objects (bows, quivers, notes, etc.) lying around where the player can pick up some of them but not others, with no explanation for the difference. Why do there even need to be multiple notes? Chris said in the stream that the notes had to respawn, but why? Isn't this a forced-solo area? If I already have a copy of the note in my inventory, who else is going to pick up a respawn?

Charlotte is STILL throwing herself into battle AND getting injured, since my character won't autoattack if Charlotte happens to get there first. I'm grateful that her barks are finally fixed, but it won't help if she gets herself killed before we get to Edvard!

Hey, there are arrows at the top of the tower now! Yay! I've always been disappointed before at not finding anything up there or along the way. I don't need a lot of reward for exploring, but at least something little is nice, just to know that the devs are thinking about explorers and not just about the grinders and party people. (That said, I still want a rock climbing award for Highvale Outskirts.)

 

I like the look of the magical barrier, but I REALLY don't like that it exists at all. There's no apparent logical reason for a magical barrier to exist here, and there's even less reason for a training automaton to have control over it. It violates the story narrative and may well give new players misleading ideas about other automatons they'll meet later. What was wrong with getting the key from Quincy's body? For that matter, why do we even need a barrier? The automaton talks about not being sure you can handle the danger, but if the mobs on the bridge are worse than the undead you've already fought getting to the gate, it's barely noticeable. If you want to keep it closed to make sure people get to Charlotte (which I hope you don't, since that's railroading again, but if you do), why not simply have it start closed then automatically open when you accept Charlotte's summons? The character will be in the burning building, so they won't see the gate mysteriously opening.

In Highvale, I love the burning sky that stays lit enough to see by even at night. In Solace Bridge, a clear blue sky at midnight does not work well.

NOW, on Solace Bridge, I finally start getting the combat and looting hints -- after I've already fought at least half a dozen undead before reaching the bridge. And the tip that says use 5 to heal is only useful if the player hasn't already accidentally or intentionally drug the ankh glyph somewhere else. Given how easy it is to accidentally move the glyphs...

You get a "Location of Boat Landing" tip at the end of the bridge, but the compass really is barely noticeable throughout this scene and there's been no hints about it. There's also no boat landing in sight when you get the tip; you have to explore a bit more to find it.

I do like that Edvard is at the boat now instead of making us escort him across the bridge, it didn't feel right to have him simply standing around at the gate waiting before. And I like the trimmed down keyword lists on the NPCs, but it feels like Edvard has been trimmed down too much. The character now gets sent on to the outskirts with almost no information about where they are or what has happened.

And I still want to know why Edvard is sending me to Solace Bridge Outskirts and telling me to speak to Abigail when I get to Soltown if he's planning to take Charlotte to her mother himself. Since he clearly doesn't take her to Soltown, where IS he taking her? At least, the dialogue feels a little less like we're handing her off to some stranger and potential pedo, but I'd still feel better with some dialogue on Charlotte's part to tell us she knows and trusts this guy.

The "Investigate the Undead Mystery" task could use some work -- or perhaps just be deleted entirely. It's too vague, and doesn't give you any clue about how to accomplish the task, just "continue onward." My other characters have never noticed when that task disappears, and it doesn't seem clearly connected to any particular action. It's just not a S-M-A-R-T goal.

I do appreciate the continual work that has gone into improving the NUE. I just wish it didn't often feel that when trying to correct an extreme in one direction, you go too far in the other direction instead.

 

On the other hand... whoever designed the rocky-top pool in Blood River Outskirts... I think I'm in love with you. If I could just plant a small cabin (one of those moss-covered ones) right there, I think I'd never leave.