Release 89

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Barugon, Apr 29, 2021.

  1. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes Received:
    3,018
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I really doubt that torpid torment was designed to remove air shield. They just happen to not stack because it's a focus damage debuff and air shield has a focus transfer rate mod. In any case, it does also remove chaotic feedback (for the same reason) regardless of whatever the intended effect is. That makes some builds that were already very limited even more limited, in addition to the effect it has on air shield users..

    Imo this is the kind of thing that is more suited for bosses. There are lots of boss fights that could be spiced up by giving the boss the power to drop all player shielding spells or just mass dispel. Otoh, giving ordinary fodder mages the ability to drop air shield and chaotic feedback is a super random thing to do, and spectacularly annoying if you happen to use either of those skills. Buff management isn't really my idea of a fun challenge, and SotA already has a ton of that anyway. Doesn't really make much difference to me whose idea it was.
     
    FBohler likes this.
  2. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    3,886
    Trophy Points:
    153
    It was, until very recently, the only way to remove Air Shield in PvP. If this was an unplanned feature, PvPers have been lucky for the past 5+ years!

    Let's be honest, Air Shield can give some players insane amounts of survivability, when I play a Light armor bard, I have about 6250 "Health" in form of my focus Shield. Is this what everyone does? Obviously not, but it is what is possible, so having *some* mobs remove it isn't a big deal, it adds a layer of difficulty to those mobs.

    By doing this, mobs become less of a field of grassed ready to be mowed down and more actual mobs that you need to fight, more RPG like, less Warframe like, and for me, that is a very nice direction.
     
  3. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    6,733
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    It was semi-unplanned. Per Chris, it wasn't the original intent that it removes air shield (or feedback) but having multiple buffs that convert focus into health damage or health damage into focus damage didn't work (started a loop where one fed into the other and back again) so there's a focus/damage channel involved. Same reason the shadow shield potion doesn't stack with SoA.
     
    FBohler and Time Lord like this.
  4. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes Received:
    3,018
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree that air shield is strong, but this is a really bad way to adjust it. It's highly random, has no effect in places where no mobs cast it, effects other skills, and is super annoying.

    I suggest a compromise. Instead of having mages cast torpid torment on players, station a companion at the entrance of all high level zones that auto joins anyone that enters. Then, have that companion follow the player and do nothing other than cast shield of ice on them once per minute. This way, you still deal with that pesky shield of air, only now, everyone gets a taste of the super fun challenge.
     
    FBohler likes this.
  5. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    3,886
    Trophy Points:
    153
    The suggest it in the Feedback/wishlist section, where it has more visibility than this thread :p would be surprised it happens but you never know :p
     
  6. Coswald_Dirthmire

    Coswald_Dirthmire Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    514
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I feel that I should chime in as a Chaotic Feedback user and say that mobs having been given this counter has made fights much more interesting and involved for me. It's given higher level fights an act and react rhythm that's much more fun to play, instead of just applying maximum damage and healing while the mob does the same, until one of you dies.

    While I don't agree that it's highly random, it's used by mages primarily as an opening move now, I do think the element of randomness has kept me much more on my toes and made these fights much more enjoyable. I can see how it would be annoying to some, pretty much everyone has a mechanic they dislike, but I wanted to give my own two cents so that we could hear from at least one feedback user.
     
    Violet Ronso and Lazlo like this.
  7. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes Received:
    3,018
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I admit that the change does make fights a little more interactive for people using feedback or SoA, but how much does it really keep players on their toes once they know it's coming? The difference basically just boils down to prepping your deck to be able re buff yourself over and over. Not exactly hot action.

    I guess whether or not it's annoying is completely a matter of opinion, but for me personally, the thing I like most about feedback builds is that there isn't a bunch of boring ramp up time and you don't have to deal with the tedium of managing a million different short duration buffs. I like challenge, but spending a bunch of time re buffing myself doesn't really do it for me. At least with feedback builds, the affected skill only lasted a few minutes to begin with and already required some management. I can only imagine that it's a lot more annoying for SoA users given that it's equally essential, but also a long duration skill that isn't normally a part of the buff tedium.

    It just seems to me like there are a zillion other better ways to tune SoA and a zillion other better ways to make combat more challenging and interactive. This way isn't particularly fun and doesn't particularly meet it's objective.
     
    FBohler likes this.
  8. Anpu

    Anpu Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,788
    Likes Received:
    6,494
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Like what for example?
     
    Violet Ronso likes this.
  9. Ysold

    Ysold Avatar

    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    312
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Soryn Fields Market, Lightbringer Isle
    Not yet mentioned here yet, I believe, are the changes to low/midlevel ghosts. They now drain focus at an alarming rate. I first thought it was only the courtier ghosts in Necropolis Barrens, but I found that also the ghosts in Elysium mine are affected, so probably all low/midlevel ghosts.
    It takes me about 5 seconds to kill a ghost and in that time it manages to drain about 300-400 focus. And this is while I have Celestial Blessing active (about lvl 90). I think this is slightly overdone.
     
    FBohler likes this.
  10. Anpu

    Anpu Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,788
    Likes Received:
    6,494
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    I believe that will be getting adjusted down in the next patch. As in they will drain less focus than they currently are. He did at least mention adjusting that.
     
    Echondas and Violet Ronso like this.
  11. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes Received:
    3,018
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, for SoA, the transfer rate could be fixed at some level that is deemed acceptable and it could have some other benefit that scales with level/stack/attunement/whatever. Or, the transfer rate could just cap at a level that's deemed acceptable but gain some other benefit when capped so that it's not pointless to progress. Could even add a second shield to the air tree that's something like proximity short stun/small damage or something. Then air would also have something to use that doesn't require building everything around.

    One way combat could be more fun is with more visual interactions. Everyone loves trolls, even though they're dumb and easy, because they're visually interactive. You watch them, they make moves, and you can counter. More of that kind of stuff and less stuff that happens on the combat bar or somewhere else in the UI would be great.
     
    FBohler, Yigg Endimion and Anpu like this.
  12. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    3,886
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I agree 100% this would be very fun, I like this concept of skill gap on some monsters a lot.

    BUT! The bold part, I would like to mention that Torpid Torment removing Shield of air has 2 in combat tells : 1. The mage caster will have that chaotic glow on their hands and 2. You will have that chaotic swirl around your head. If you see these, you immediately want to purify or recast your buff. It doesnt look as fancy as jumping when a troll stomps, but it is still a reaction to the visual effects, you are pressing a 1-0 key instead of the space bar.
     
    Lazlo likes this.
  13. Vesper

    Vesper Avatar

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    326
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Chris tried to balance air shield properly, and there was an air archer up rising. So he did torpid and a mild adjustment instead
     
    Violet Ronso likes this.
  14. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes Received:
    3,018
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There is a little bit of visual interaction with npc torpid, but it's still quite a bit different than something like jumping a troll or dragon attack. Jump is just an instant thing you can do at any time, while moving around, and in many cases while using skills. A purify followed by a re buff is a lot slower, more exclusive, and requires pre stacking and combat bar/deck prep and space. I know it's subjective, but I feel very confident that most peoples' fun-0-meter needles are much higher when jumping over an attack than when stopping in the middle of a fight to re buff themselves.
     
    FrostII likes this.
  15. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    13,704
    Likes Received:
    21,352
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    They could've just removed dexterity from the transfer calculation and I would have been perfectly fine with that.
     
    FrostII and FBohler like this.
  16. Powersurge45

    Powersurge45 Avatar

    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I dont have a problem with any of these adjustments if its going to hit everyone... if the point was to make the game harder overall and make it more rewarding to group up then that is a positive change. However, if anyone thinks that "balance" actually exists hasnt played enough MMOs or any other game type long enough. Ok archers and mages have been nerfed overall...fine...Ok i'm ready for those polearm/sword/blunt/Heavy armor nerfs now. Go ahead and get those in the game so we can move on with our lives please. I also do not want to hear any whining from those folks...remember...this is what we all wanted...this is what we all asked for....
     
    FBohler likes this.
  17. Anpu

    Anpu Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,788
    Likes Received:
    6,494
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    [​IMG]
    I know there has been some pain but lots of balance progress. This chart is total XPs earned and used to have 3 scenes that made up more than 75% of the chart. With more balance brought to those, players now have a choice of where to play without feeling like they are missing out
    http://twitter.com/catnipgames/status/1390692994504970240
     
  18. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    3,886
    Trophy Points:
    153
    For these "classes", Torpid Torment actually drains their health as they use their skills, so they need to cleanse that. Also, Crit stacking for these guys will go down with the next set of balance pass to Bard skills, bringing Savage Sonata up to the same cast time as Atonal Aria means they will probably all remove it from their decks, effectively lowering their DPS and Health from losing all of these buffs!
     
  19. FBohler

    FBohler Avatar

    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    366
    Trophy Points:
    43
    This XP distribution is still pretty bad.
    So many underutilized scenes out there.
     
  20. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    3,886
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Agreed! At least a step in the right direction, going from 3 scenes being 75% of the distribution to 10 scenes is progress!
     
    Sara Dreygon, FBohler and Anpu like this.