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[Responded] Defensive skill modifier from Defensive Stance not applied

Discussion in 'Combat, Skills, & Magic' started by Barugon, Jun 4, 2018.

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  1. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    6/4/2018 1:37 AM
    Title: Defensive skill modifier from Defensive Stance not applied
    Reproduction Rate: 100%
    Blocker? No.
    Details: This is still broken in R54: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...-from-defensive-stance-is-not-applied.125103/
    Steps to Reproduce: See the link above.
    User Specs:
    OS: Linux 4.16 unknown 64bit
    CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Eight-Core Processor (16) System RAM: 32158
    GPU: GeForce GTX 1070/PCIe/SSE2 GPU RAM: 8192
    SotA.Linux.64.788.Date.06.01.18
    Area: POT_island_metropolis_01_template/Mystic Isle
    Area Display Name: Mystic Isle
    Loc: (22.2, 89.0, -71.7)
    Debug: UE9UX2lzbGFuZF9tZXRyb3BvbGlzXzAxX3RlbXBsYXRlfE15c3RpYyBJc2xlfCgyMi4yMywgODkuMDA0LCAtNzEuNjczKXwoMCwgMC4wNzMsIDAsIC0wLjk5Nyl8LTE4MDguMTgxfDIwLjg1MzE4fDcuNzU1ODQ=
     
  2. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    @Lexie
    Is there any word on this? It has been affecting me for a very long time now.
     
  3. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen

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    I thought this was settled in the other thread? It's a skill modifier. Cast this prior to casting Dodge :)
    @Barugon
     
  4. Nog

    Nog Avatar

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    I missed any mention of this earlier. As someone who uses Dodge and Defensive Stance, what happens if you cast Dodge, then Defensive Stance (which just happens to be how my hotbar is set up moving down the line left->right)? Thanks
     
  5. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Well, as I explained, if I use the Dodge skill first and then Defensive Stance, the Dodge buff icon tooltip under my health bar shows that the bonus is applied but /stats shows that it is not. This is a bug.

    Even if it is intended to work that way, it's a really poor design (not to mention that there's absolutely nothing to let the user know that they have to use them in a specific order).
     
    FrostII, mike11, Jaesun and 1 other person like this.
  6. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    You do not get the bonus from Definitive Stance.
     
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  7. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    @Lexie
    Also, please don't just dismiss me based on speculation from another player.
     
  8. HuntedHunt

    HuntedHunt Avatar

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    @Lexie
    Another example of the mismatched buff tooltip is the tactics Fortify Defences skill.
    Defensive Stance -> Fortify Defenses or Fortify Defenses -> Defensive Stance will both show the same stance boosted amount in the tooltip of the buff icon, but the former will show less total avoidance in the character panel than the latter.
    (No need to check /stats for this one, the in-game numbers on the tooltips add up to less than the amount shown given in the character panel if you cast Fortify Defenses first.)

    Conversely, if you Defensive Stance -> Fortify Defenses then dismiss or wait for defensive stance to run out, both the tooltip and the character panel update to the lower value, showing it can/does update dynamically.

    Confusingly, this will also trigger the lower value if you interrupt defensive stance by re-casting it.
    (Cast Defensive Stance, then Fortify Defenses - You get the higher boosted amount both in the tooltip and the character panel. Then cast Defensive Stance again -> you get the unboosted amount in the character panel but the buff tooltip is still the boosted amount)
     
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  9. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Thanks @HuntedHunt. That helps a lot.
     
  10. Jaanelle DeJure

    Jaanelle DeJure Avatar

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    This is an old bug.

    The part about having to cast Def Stance first is as intended.

    The bug part is that - once you have def stance up- the effects are being reported differently depending on where you look, i.e. the status icons under the health bar, the character sheet (or paperdoll), the skill tooltips themselves, or /stats.

    @Lexie to repro, make a deck full of skills that are augmented by Defensive Stance.

    First, deploy all the skills EXCEPT Defensive Stance. Take note of what is being reported in the status icons, paperdoll, tooltips, etc.

    Cancel all the buffs.

    Then go into Defensive Stance and reapply. Go back and take note of what is being reported in various places versus what is shown in the tooltips. You should see they don't agree.
     
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  11. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Unless you can point to where a developer said that then please refrain from saying it. It doesn't help! The icon under your health bar actually shows the correct state; as in it doesn't matter what order you use them, the tooltip is correct. So, saying that it's intended to only work in a specific order or that the bug is the tooltip showing the wrong state is completely bogus because it can be done correctly, as the tooltip clearly shows.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  12. Jaanelle DeJure

    Jaanelle DeJure Avatar

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    Barugon- I will try to track down confirmation from a dev for you.

    However you and I both have been posting about this for many months, and have already been given an answer.

    Think about it... A stance. You need to go into the stance BEFORE you get any additional bonuses. It wouldn't make any sense to retroactively apply stance bonuses to skills already deployed when you enter the stance.

    Missing and incorrect information in tooltips and status icons, etc., is a bug though, and has not been addressed for nearly a year.
     
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  13. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    This is absolutely the incorrect way to think about it. You should get the bonus regardless of order. Anything else is simply lazy. If you look at the tooltip, it's actually applied and removed at exactly the right moments, so there's no problem determining when it should be applied.

    Also, the bonuses (and negatives) from other stances don't work that way.
     
  14. Jaanelle DeJure

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    I don't agree at all. It seems, to me, lazier for a player to insist they shouldn't have to think about what order they deploy their skills. A stance is... a stance. It is the position that prepares you to take a certain action. And I am not going to argue simple definitions here with you. Go take some martial arts classes and suggest to the teacher that going into a certain stance should ripple backwards in time, and make your previous defensive moves stronger, and I think you will get some really weird looks.

    Anyhow, Chris is still ignoring my messages but Kor said, "yea I have always operated under the assumption that you have to do it after defensive stance first then other defensive buffs" So there you have (some level of) confirmation from another dev, in addition to Lexie, who I believe has been saying for a while this is how this stance is supposed to work.

    I would definitely agree, however, that the behavior of all the stances should be consistent. Either they should all apply retroactively, or none.

    Unfortunately, it is exceedingly difficult to get straight answers about how skills are supposed to work, so we are left to bicker with each other in the forums about it. :confused:
     
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  15. Lexie

    Lexie Bear Queen

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    The other ones are not listed as a skill modifier....the defensive bonus, anyway.
    At this point, this is going around in circles. We've reviewed this skill repeatedly in this and prior releases (trying to find a problem with it) and have determined it is working correctly. If you don't want to take my word for it - multiple people here have reviewed this, including Chris. This has been fully addressed.

    I'm locking this thread. Thank you all very much for your input!
     
    Jaesun likes this.
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