Resurrection is the reason why all boss fights are easy.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aetrion, Aug 14, 2018.

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  1. Nelzie

    Nelzie Avatar

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    It continually improves. Elements have been added that to impact skills, pushing people to focus more on certain things, as they wish too.
     
  2. 2112Starman

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    I've been playing the game 3 years now and for those entire 3 years my goal has been to be a healer. I have 1250 points in life now with GM specialization (~170 attun). They have come a long way with group healing but its still not something I would subject myself to in its current form. For now, I use it to heal myself.
     
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  3. Nikko

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    Do you lose XP on death if resurrected by a player? I could have sworn the decay doesn't hit you if a player resurrects you.
     
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  4. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Maybe? I don't group much. And I die often enough anyway when I do not to pay a lot of attention to decay. If so, then my point is moot. But if not, and I took a 500k or more hit for dying, the last thing I'd want in my party is a healer whose attitude is, "it's easier to resurrect you than keep you from dying."
     
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  5. Nikko

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    Hah! Oh yeah... No doubt about that! What a terrible thing for a healer to think/say! Not OK.
     
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  6. Vladamir Begemot

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    That's a good tactic, but I think he has demonstrated, and most of us have seen, that due to chain resurrection it's unnecessary to do a great technique like that.

    @Chris might miss this one being on vacation, so tagging.

    From personal experience, this is true. Even I, a lowly furniture maker / melee warrior , can rez now. And I have helped keep a party going to the point where we had all rezzed each other five times and finally said "ok, we can't do this guy, I think we should give up.".

    It wasn't the "good" experience of getting smoked by a boss. It was a meh experience of "we are totally immortal, but we just can't hit you hard enough yet."

    Good analysis and potential solutions imo.
     
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  7. Barugon

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    If you resurrect at an ankh (or let it time out), you take half of your accrued decay. If a player resurrects you then you take half of that half.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  8. Nikko

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    If that is true, then there is some real value to that skill! Thanks for chiming in, sir.
     
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  9. Aetrion

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    Could you explain how?

    Also, the ability to farm these dragons with an entire raid full of people who don't know how kind of makes my point about chain resurrections making bosses too easy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  10. Barugon

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    Yeah, I want to know too.
     
  11. Barugon

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    Just be aware that the rest of that accumulated decay is still there and when you die again, you'll take either half or a quarter of that remaining amount (plus any amount that you have accrued in the meantime).
     
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  12. Dread1313

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    Agreed. I keep seeing streamers strafing around dragons to solo them. Have seen two streamers do this so far. Does it border on exploiting, kinda - but it is what it is. Nerfing resurrect skill (which would effect everyone, even those not killing bosses) is a bad fix and is one of those "throw the baby out with the bathwater" approaches, and those are never good.

    You're literally talking about nerfing or fixing a skill which really only benefits 10% of the entire population in very specific scenarios (just like in your UT thread...) but it will effect EVERYONE ELSE.
     
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  13. Vladamir Begemot

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    Actually I'm pretty sure he was talking about giving the bosses something to counter infinite rez chaining, and thus make the fight more decisive. If you're not getting killed by the boss, it effects no one.
     
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  14. kaeshiva

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    Some good points here about boss mechanics, but honestly, 'rez through it' isn't really a solution - with the amount of XP you lose per death at high levels dying repeatedly to kill a boss that will just drop 50g worth of junk is the very definition of stupid.
     
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  15. Nikko

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    Indeed. I can tell you that I, for one, would definitely not be with a group very long if the healer is not capable of keeping people alive. Obviously you need to add a second or third very capable healer if this keeps happening. Also, I do NOT think the bosses are too easy. I used to kill some of the bosses with a good friend being very cautious (and it took us a long time to do it), and I have not done it without 5+ people in over a year.

    They used to be just right. My only complaint is that they should only be killable once per day if they drop something good like artificats or a head. Or can be killable 1 time in a day for the good chance at the sought-after drops, and then the rest of the times you kill it in that 24 hr period, you only get the haunch and some gems and scales or something (no chance for artifacts). Honestly, this would solve a lot of the issues we have.
     
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  16. mystarr

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    If the OP was in a group that used a strat like I suggested then his heals WOULD matter. The healer CAN keep the group from dying. The weird thing here is that instead of using the skills we have to develop a strat that involves tanking and healing to keep people alive, people seem to be okay with the "strat" of "Its gonna kill us all several times and we are just going to res over and over and keep going...?" I would think that the death penalty would deter people from using a strategy like that but apparently not. (Go figure...)

    We already have the skills in game to use tank/healer tactics. It just sounds like people aren't using them. If you really want to force people to use a strat besides "Lets all just die and res over and over" you could do something like:
    - Only allow players to be resd (by spell) once every 2 mins
    - Require res to be on the combat bar in order to use it in combat? (This "might" require a little more commitment from players to use res during a fight, but since we can drop out of combat so quickly now I'm not sure it would really change much)
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
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  17. GreyMouser Skye

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    The very definition of stupid is aspiring to be able to do more than just scratch these bosses only to find that the loot sucks because the devs had to curtail incentive to farm.
    If you get a crafting XP bonus for first production with diminishing returns thereafter, then why cannot we have a loot bonus for first dragon kill, first daemon kill, etc.?

    Answer, because then people would make alts to pair up and get these bonuses in a new exploit farming loop.... aka This is why we cannot have nice things.
    If we could block the min max farmers from this bonus I would be all for it.

    Sorry, this was a bit off topic of OP. I'll respost somewhere new if OP asks.
     
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  18. Aetrion

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    The thing is, nobody is killing bosses for XP or loot. You get an Aether dragon farm going because people want the heads for their wall, or just for the fun of doing something different. In terms of raw XP loss getting killed 10 times isn't even half as bad as not spending the time in UT instead.
     
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  19. GMDavros

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    I've never joined a group with the fatalistic view of "eh, we'll just get ressed." As an aspiring healer i work ridiculously hard to keep people alive. The other healers i've worked beside have the same ethic. I'm sure there are people/groups that feel differently.

    Without getting all RP on people, when i'm playing a healer I feel obligated to the people who are expecting me to heal them to do my very best to do so (even to the point of sacrificing myself on their behalf to get that last heal in). It's a matter of honor/respect.

    It doesn't really matter much what the devs do if you've already mentally decomposed the game into a series of actions/responses. No amount of immersion or balancing or whatever will fix it because to the player of that mindset it isn't broken. It's just a matter of how quickly they can accomplish what they're trying to accomplish.

    Fenris
     
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  20. Vladamir Begemot

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    He's not saying that we just go for dying because we can.

    He's saying boss fights would be more exciting if the boss could win in a way other than being so rapidly healing we can't keep up.
     
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