Return of Ransom

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Revenant, Aug 17, 2021.

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  1. queenbee

    queenbee Avatar

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    Personally, I hate the idea of ransom. It makes sense to put something like that back in certain areas like The Fall. But to instate it everywhere... uh no thank you.
     
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  2. oplek

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    If I ever get bored, I might try to data mine the Steam stats. I'm not sure it's actually true that PVP games are more popular.

    Sure, you can go to the top-20 Steam stats, and most of them are PVP-centric. That doesn't indicate what one might think.

    Subnautica has 2400 concurrent users right now on Steam (and not counting other storefronts), and it's been 5 years. But my enjoyment of that game isn't contingent on how many other people are playing it. Arguably, SOTA's highly soloable nature can also mean people can play without others being needed.

    On the other hand, people who are doing the PVPs will tend to migrate to where people are congregating. I also briefly played a battle royale knockoff called "Last Man Standing". They went F2P. Thousands of people showed up, and a month or so later, thousands of people vanished. They don't tend to linger on a dead/dying game.

    PVP games can often achieve higher concurrent/peak users, but in terms of total volume, I suspect, if we were to go through and add up all the single-player or non-PVP game populations, as spread out as they are, it may surpass PVP.
     
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  3. jrs99

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    i'm trying to get your point oplek...i really am....
     
  4. Scanphor

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    In an open ended sandbox game such as this, "end game" is whatever you want it to be for you
     
  5. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    Precision and Bruce Lee's Flute:
    When it comes to true presision, there cannot be anything else other than the the target and the desire to hit it, you either hit the target or you're just making very expensive noise.
    Back in the early 80's, a friend of mine and I decided to exclude all other things of our lives as soldiers and focus on nothing but marksmanship, as there was a national military competition that came availible and we had no special assignment which would prevent our entering. So the powers that be granted us permission with bets of how far we would make it through. With each competition, my freind and I remained because we were as focused as Monks meditating on a flame. The only thing we kept from our previous life was just a small bit of smoke we allowed ourselves but not each day and even when we allowed ourselves 3-4 tokes were as much as we dared because it didn't do our shooting scores any good, just our sanity. There were both men and women who made the army team, 4 men and two women, but my friend and I were the only combat soldiers, so my friend was the first to be called away. He was a great offroad motorcyclist before we turned ourselves into marksmanship monks and the army decided they wanted to mount a motorcycle on a helocopter. I was taken just a couple of weeks afterward for the same reasons he was taken, but my mode of combat delivery system was different. We both ended up in the same desert, but we only had a few chances to talk together as his transport and mine were not the same, just both heading in the same direction.


    I know you hear a silent flute that draws you along your path, it's a flute that only you can hear, which is just as important as what other hear, unless they hear many flutes, which means they would not be focused enough to go as far as the one down a focused path.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    It's one of the Gargoyles Virtues, "precision".

    Without the need for my past life's skills, I would have never been allowed to have them. Without all the toys to do the needed things, there was no way to do those things. Getting others "hooked" on doing those same things my friend and I were doing, they did not hear the same flute, they heard the sounds of many flutes, calling them in many different directions and they also had no time to aquire the skills to any level of precision. So, they were going to make allot more noise than they were hitting any target because there were just too many flutes.

    But the target must be hit, the objective must be achieved without thought of any other outcome being acceptable, so things must bend and shiny things must draw the masses needed because 90% of those masses are only going to make allot of noise, achieving nothing other than providing other targets for the other teams noise makers to make noise back at them so the 10% can take care of what is needed.

    1 out of 10:
    That's about the ratio we have of PvP to PvE. One "Hook" and 9 "Lost Boys", that's what made the story of Peter Pan, which is a good reflection of reality within any PvP cause.

    What we're asking for when we ask for more PvP funding, is either more audience participation or ticket price to see the show. It's the same way in the real world, recruitment and rage in interest for onlookers to pay the ticket price for the show. If it's a spectacular show, some will come to participate while others come to watch. 18 Billion dollars of spectacular fireworks a day, for 7 consecutive days caused all who saw it and had a dog in the show to wave their flag while watching it all on CNN. It took the world 20 years to get over that show delivered on two world stages.

    Keep your eyes on the elements which drew such finding to a bonfire of insanity...

    • Audience participation.
    • Ticket price from audience entertainment.
    • and Shiny things in order to draw that audience to it.
    OR:
    Without these elements, it's a total solo event in solitude which draws no funding, other than what can be stolen so the actual people funding it don't know where their money is going, and when they do find out, they're pissed.

    Those are the elements of expanding our SOTA PvP interests, because everyone does not hear that lone flute which leads to precision.

    [​IMG]
    It's a spiritual journey which defies all explanation :)~TL~
     
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  6. Time Lord

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    :eek: PvP player numbers will always remain stagnate as long as there are a lack of "things" to play with.
    There will always be a want for more as PvP play tends to become bored with what is/was programed.

    [​IMG]
    What's wanted always seems temporary and temporarily used yet "things sold & owned" last forever.
    Development must move in the direction of promoting things which can be sold to help support PvP.

    [​IMG]
    A parasitic relationship only serves to continue the limited existance of a limited numer of audience.
    There must be things to see when we say "come play with me with what I'm doing" to hold attention.

    That's just our PvP through history and, there can only be a limited number of players within any instance there can be.

    Lets consider something different which enables our developers to afford our PvP.

    What things could enhance our PvP that we would love to buy?
    This is why I really love the new kobold lift turbines ;)
    They're a step in the right direction! ~Time Lord~
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
  7. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    Just so everyone knows. When ransom is turned back on, My adventures with PVP will be at an end. :)
     
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  8. Virsago2099

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    As far as the ransom system goes, I never did care for it. It doesn't do much for providing an incentive to get out there and pvp, but does provide a deterrent for many. The most I ever lost on ransom was maybe 10k. Not a big deal for anyone who's been playing for a while, but could be bank busting for a new player. I don't think the answer is to go back to the old ways. We need a whole new system in place.

    As the conversation has swung a bit to include bringing more people into the pvp fold, i think to achieve that we need a few new systems. The thing that Shroud lacks in the department of pvp, that other games with successful pvp systems have, is a reason for people to want to do it. There is the core audience for pvp, the ones who will do it simply because it is fun. Those folks are already out there doing their thing. But if you want new blood, people need a reason to get out there, and a few thousand gold and some named bones ain't gonna do it. We need systems that encourage it, reward it, and have a constant need for players attention to keep the engagements flowing.

    And selling pvp items in the COTO store....that's a big NOPE from me. COTO store should be cosmetics only far as i'm concerned. I can't imagine anything for pvp that could be put on there that wouldn't in some way end up being p2w. We don't need to justify the cost of improving the game's pvp. It's one part of the whole, and every other part of the game has gotten the lion's share of development attention. It's high time pvp had some content developed for it. The game is in a much better place now, than it was 2 years ago (or even last year). The only thing that has seen almost no changes, is pvp.
     
  9. macnlos

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    If that is true then you never started your adventures with PvP. You've been bowling with foam guards in the gutters.
     
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  10. Virsago2099

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    Is it only an adventure when you're putting your money on the line? Getting people to try pvp was a good thing, and if turning off the ransom helped with that then it was worth it. Let's not pretend that pvp was better with ransom, or that it was some how more hardcore. It wasn't.
     
  11. Tahru

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    I am staying out of this debate besides this one post. I have seen these threads many many times and all they tend to do is get people riled up. Most people don't like PvP because of the ganking and poor sportsmanship. It only takes one bad apple... Nothing anyone anywhere on the Internet can say or do is going to change that behavior. Sad but true. It is a safe bet that this game will never force PvP. Not only because of that, but it's sort of a SoTA thing to just try to be quirky, fun, and accessible. One has to embrace the zen of that quirkiness without preconditions before one can truly enjoying playing the game.

    Secondly, Ransom never worked anyway. People just put on Store-gear that can't be taken and filled their bags with trash to reduce the odds. Of course that made them easy prey, so they just ended up being ganked anyway. A pointless cycle by any definition.

    Thirdly, there are still huge balance issues.

    As far a risk goes, I disagree that there is no risk. The avatar is not supposed to die. Death is bad, whether is from a player or NPC. In a PvP zone, death itself is even more likely. Just saying that it is inaccurate to say that people don't take risks. Also, if the are people botting fishing, report them, PvP zone or not. They will get banned.

    I agree with Bowen that we need to try something else. Maybe something else will produce better results.

    I have a simple question, why is there a need to compel everyone to play PvP in sota? I mean there's lots of better choices for that gameplay, like valorant. What is so special in this case that just playing with those interested isn't enough?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
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  12. Bowen Bloodgood

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    My #3 reason. Sadly, my intro to PvP was this very thing for.. well quite a long time. So much so that it took a long time to sink in that not ALL PvPers are like that.

    I don't think SotA is special in this regard. I have a feeling that PvPers simply take a 'the more the merrier' approach. :) More butt kicking is always better.. or something like that. PvPers want to PvP.
     
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  13. Johnwick

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    Nobody forces anyone to pvp except the game. In certain scenes. I think pvp is sought after for the simple reason real people are more challenging than npcs in the game. Ai is only as good and the person that designs it but real people are more challenging. I would love to see some kind of ransom, but it's not a nessecity for enjoyment of pvp. Balance is more of a necessity for this game. Other games are based on rewards. Personally I love rewards but some fun pvp against a real live opponent is best, in my opinion.
     
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  14. queenbee

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    I personally have never told anyone they must PVP. My main discussion was changing the attitude towards PVP.

    Death is not a positive thing. I agree. But I find it amusing that people die in PVE and yet they don't want to eliminate PVE like some have stated towards PVP.

    Dying at the hand of another player without giving you warning or preparation to fight. Is this not the definition of ganking? If players enter a PVP zone, should they not ALWAYS be aware they could be attacked and always be prepared? Otherwise, wouldn't that player be considered a little daft to enter and not be prepared?

    There are limited situations where one is given warning and preparations to fight like dueling, obsidian trials. Otherwise I always expect I will be ganked when entering a PVP zone.

    From what I understand, Rev wants some kind of consequence reinstated for PVP zones to prevent people from going afk and botting. Since there has been no other system before other than ransom, that is why he is suggesting it be put back in.
     
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  15. queenbee

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    As for poor sportsmanship, that is on the player, not PVP. This game allows you the choice whether or not you want to deal with these types of players. When House of Mangar ruled PVP, I avoided PVP zones completely. Remains of UO now dominate PVP. They are a fun group which is why I was willing to try PVP.
     
  16. Tahru

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    I don't feel it is accurate that the solution to botting is to alienate more players. If there is botting in a PvP zone, there is botting in a Non-PvP zone. And botting is a banable offence, so simply report them. Much more likely is that there are player that know they can't compete in PvP and simply don't try, hoping the attacker will just get bored and go away.

    There was an earlier post asking for automatic flagging for all players, and that was what prompted my question. I actually like that there are PvP zones. I think there should be fewer of them, just to increase the probability of conflict.
     
  17. Tahru

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    I could not agree more, it is on the player to behave like a human being. BUT 99/100 if you confront the bad player, they will say that it is the games fault for allowing them to do it. I loath that response.
     
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  18. Johnwick

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    In
    Wen you enter a pvp zone for whatever reason you are warned that bad things can happen. If I understand correctly if you fish in a pvp zone there is some kind of increase in skill leveling so in essence people use the mechanics of the game to level faster. In the same picture people that are pvp gain extra experience as well for being pvp. It seems like a fair trade off to me. You can't just expect a pvp person to be kind and ask " do you wanna fight" in a zone where pvp happens. If you want a fair fight compete in arenas or duels. You can't expect a pvp person not to pvp in a pvp zone, whether you want to or not is besides the point since you are in a PVP ZONE! If you don't want to be a part of pvp, then there is no reason to be in a zone where it's expected. Except for self gratification of extra experience.
     
  19. Tahru

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    You context is incorrect. I was not talking about being in a PvP zone. But to respond, if player wants to fish in a PvP zone and not fight, that is their right to do so and it is not called botting. That does not imply they should not expect to be attacked.
     
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  20. Johnwick

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    There were people complaining about getting killed in a pvp zone while fishing so that's where that came from.
     
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