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Shroud 2020 Vision

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Chris, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    A simple solution can be that after the search of an item in a town, all vendors that cointain the item you looked for are highlighted and showed on Compass (similar to tracking lots on town criers).
    This can fix most of problems without giving advantages just to lowest prices or promoting just best spots and at the same time improve the situation of looking for specific items among hundreds of vendors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  2. Dhanas

    Dhanas Avatar

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    Not sure how all those problem can happen, just put a vendor search in every town. Let's make an example: i am in Novia market looking for beetle carapacian, i put the word beetle in the search and it highlights all the vendors in novia market that have beetle listed.
    It should work excatly like when you talk to towncrier looking for a lot, it doesn't necessary needs to show prices but just location, and doesn't need to be global, but localized for every pot/npc town, you should be able to search just in the town where you are into.
    I saw it in other games with localized economy and it worked pretty good.
     
  3. oplek

    oplek Avatar

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    Only in Shroud would the notion of players - being able to find what they want to buy - be an economic Armageddon.
     
  4. Aartemis

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    Whhhhhhhhaaaaaaattttt? Did you just suggest making an NPC (Ok lets say it - BUILDING) worth-while?? I mean they limit us to how many we can put in but really they do nothing for that limitation. I like having the NPC's place-able around town but If you put a building in, it should have NPC's already in them that DONT count against the town.
     
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  5. Gorthyn

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    Sadly as with so many issues with the game it's another case of the vested interests of a few damaging the game for everyone else and therefore the fortunes of the game itself.
     
  6. greenerpastures

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    Amen. Agree that the devs should study these and get statistically sound feedback (i.e., don't just go ask the most "prominent" players) and think out a way forward. There are pros and cons to each method, but again, it comes down to what Chris really wants. Keeping the status quo for a small but loyal player base, or taking a chance on changing something to attract new players. Because I can assure you that most f2p players coming in are not having fun spending huge chunks of time hoping to find what they need. I love local vendors in concept, but after a while it became so tiresome - the average player must hate it. So Chris, take your time for a change, get actual measured feedback, and figure out which audience you are most wanting to go for - keep existing players, or go for new ones.

    But please, study study study before you do something rash - if your recent comment about rethinking Heritage items should teach anything, it is that making a massive change with no feedback, or feedback from just the most passionate players, usually does not turn out well. Good luck.
     
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  7. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    I agree that there's less need to diversify in terms of location, but there'd still be some benefit to widespread availability. If I can buy something for more or less the same price from someone in a town next door, or in a town where there's other good shops to visit, vs. someone halfway across the world in a town with no other shopping - its an obvious choice.

    You're right in there would be less point in having a presence in multiple market towns with similar layouts, but doing so would still give you impulse shops and convenience buyers. Even without a search function, right now I know where there is a particular vendor that always sells an item I want. I can walk straight to it. And yet, I still check all the other vendors on the way 'just in case they might have a good deal on something. The only difference is a search function would diversify my route, and maybe I find other places I can go to buy that thing, and I'll probably still check vendors on the way particularly if they have clever names or well-done storefronts. I don't think that element will be as diminished as you think - it isn't diminished now, when I know exactly where I'm headed and what I'm buying.

    Less importance to premium spots - sure, instead of people heading to the first lot they see (which often doesn't have what they want but its just where you start the slog of clicking) they head to the lot who consistently has the best stock and best prices. Those become the premium lots where its based on quality/pricing of the shop instead of proximity to the town entrance which is pretty arbitrary. The trade chat channel seems to be to be a bandaid to the failure of our vendor system as it allows players to promote what they've got and / or ask for what they need. I think people would still advertise on this when they restock their vendors - why wouldn't they? Sure, people could search if they were looking to buy, but people will also buy if a good deal is advertised even if they weren't looking at it. Again, not all doom and gloom.

    I'm not saying it wont change the dynamic, but it would improve the experience for the customers considerably and sellers can absolutely adapt, advertise, build loyal customers, roleplay, socialize, and do everything they can do now. The people who care about that sort of thing would likely support the vendors who put in these extra efforts - I know I for one will pay a few gold more to support a player I know who has been polite, fair, etc. than buying from a stranger.

    The current system fails in that it is so onerous/tedious to find items you need that many of us simply don't bother shopping at all. People complain that nobody buys things and everyone makes it themselves because it is easier/faster to do so than to slog through hundreds of vendors and spend hours going from town to town.

    If you are dead-set against searchability, what alternative solutions would you offer to fix this problem? I'm a player looking to buy say, maple wood, and I have 15 minutes to find somewhere selling it at a reasonable price. What can I do? Let's say you're selling it. How do I know to go to your shop? How do I find it if you're not advertising on trade, forums, discord or online to respond when someone asks? How do I keep from wasting my time checking 50 places? If I've been around a while, I might know somewhere to go that I found before and happened to remember, but if I'm new to the game? How do I find shops that have what I need? How do I find buyers for the stuff that I collect? How do I know those prices are fair? If there's a better way than a search, then let's explore it.
     
  8. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Its not even that - I'm an existing player who has been here for years and I have completely given up on the entire market/vendor system in its current state.
    I think a lot of existing players are in the exact same boat.

    As with so many issues, we see a lot of potential "progress" stymied due to not wanting to step on the toes of a vocal group of players who declare they will quit if so and so is changed. The reality is the current system simply isn't working - if it was, we wouldn't see this issue come up again, and again, and again. The powers that be (sorry, Chris) need to decide if the benefits of adding a new system outweigh the downsides and factor in the cost/time it would take to implement. Market improvements such as are being discussed here have many benefits to accessibility, quality of life, time management, convenience, etc. etc. that will affect everyone. It has a downside of making some prominent lot holders adjust their pricing to remain competitive, and affecting the "trade empires" who have vendors in multiple towns. This is not a small demographic and if this sort of system is how we want to keep it, then things will continue as they are, and a lot of players like myself will continue to not bother with shopping or selling because it isn't worth the hassle.

    So as you've said - its about which demographic the game wants to retain. If nothing changes, then disgruntled people remain disgruntled. If it is changed, then different people get disgruntled. Data-gathering to determine the numbers/types of players in each camp would be a good next step toward evaluating the matter.
     
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  9. Spungwa

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    The thing about global search while sell prices may tick down as people try to compete on price alone. In a game that also has buy orders, that works both ways. The buy orders tick UP as people try to compete on price.

    Global listings of price do not work well in games that only allow you to set sell orders, but become a commodity exchange when buy orders are added. Just as every market town and dock had in RL since before medieval times. Corn exchanges etc have existed for over an a millennium IRL. Commodity exchanges is were farmers go to sell and shop owners go to buy and traders live to work off the margin between the buy and sell order prices for people that don't want to wait to find the someone to sell to.


    Regards
    Spung
     
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  10. Sentinel2

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    After speed reading the last 8 pages of comments, I haven't seen anything about improving the crafting book. It needs... something.

    Perhaps a search feature like with the crafting tables?

    Unless i know what I'm looking for and where it is, I usually skip the book and go to search on the tables. It would be very helpful to include a similar ability in the book. I have SOO many recipes. Sometimes I don't even remember which table I should search upon and have to check several tables. Having it in a book would be an improvement for all I believe.
     
  11. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    Same like the Journal: we need Good structured chapters with tabs and easy search.

    And please: icons to click on - we already have them in skill trees;)
     
  12. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer Ambassador

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    Hah! Happy to see that people at least understand our challenges with making people happy! My current plan for vendors hasn't changed. I'm going to expose what stuff is on a vendor to Lua. This is not to support a global search but to allow players to do things like export everything to a spread sheet for modifying and reimporting. I expect part of the side effect from adding that, universally accepted functionality will be that someone will likely start making a global data base of goods and prices.
     
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  13. Dhanas

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    Imo LUA is not something new players expect use to access to certain features of the game, Many have no idea of what LUA is and how to use it.
    It is better not making it available at all than give this useful feature just to a few people that want to use LUA.
     
  14. smack

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    That's exactly what will happen. When this data is exposed at the client, it will get pushed to a web service and now you have a central database of all vendor pricing. Which can then be consumed by other players or clients. I'm looking forward to making this! ;)
     
  15. Numa

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    Elite Dangerous does it this way. Players run programs that parse through the game logs for planetary inventories of goods, equipment, raw materials, ship models and parts. These are then coursed to a third party website which consolidates all the listings.

    The more visited a solar system or planet, the more updated the quantities and prices are.

    It works and we're talking about thousands of inhabited systems here - many with half a dozen or more terraforned planets and moons.
     
  16. Rhiannon

    Rhiannon Bug Hunter

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    My 2gp (maybe 20gp with inflation):

    First @Chris kudos for even putting a list like this together, when you take into consideration the hundreds if not thousands of varying opinions on nearly everything. It helps supporters understand the direction we're headed.

    Secondly, Is part of the quest system to fix/change the journal? I recently did two Outskirts and the journal was basically useless. Stuff is in there from a group jaunt I went on with someone and ended up with quests I have NO idea what they are for. Also, during the very first SotaCon, I told Richard that there is no way at all for a new player to understand that there are virtue paths and associated quests. When you go to Arabela, she will give you all three paths and their starting points but no way to distinguish them. There is no way at all to know I'm doing the Truth path. Or that I had completed it even. The journal should tell us that. How can this be fixed as part of the quest overhaul? This is something a new player will see on day one of their time in SotA. It's super important that it makes sense.

    Thirdly, we have GOT to do something about the recipe book. I HATE it when someone asks me if I have a certain recipe. I have to scan page after page to find out if I do or not. On a crafting table, I can search for in a certain category based on the table I'm working on but the recipe book is again, basically useless. Is there a way to fix our current recipe book? Or do we need a complete overhaul?

    ETA: just wanted to voice my opinion that we should NOT be able actually buy things from vendors without actually going to them. Search to find things? Absolutely.

    Thanks for all you and the team are doing. I can't WAIT to see our mounts I have eagerly waited for since day one. As well as all the other adventures you have planned for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  17. vulcanjedi

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    If you limit the search to the town you are currently in then even if it does show the price you still have to do a little legwork to check other towns and remember prices.
    vj
     
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  18. Kara Brae

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    I will be playing multiplayer, of course. :D
     
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  19. Vladamir Begemot

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    I hope you mean global vendor search
     
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  20. ErikRulez

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    @Chris Should "Item Affinity" be in there some place?
     
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