Sun and moon tree questions

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DalTXColtsFan, Jun 20, 2021.

  1. DalTXColtsFan

    DalTXColtsFan Avatar

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    From the Sun tree, I like searing ray and elyisan illumination. I just now noticed that Sun Eater will increase my strength, so as a melee fighter, I should probably be training that.

    Is there any reason to train Moon Warding? I don't feel like I encounter a lot of enemies who use moon magic on me.

    Does Solar Flare actually work? I feel like every time I cast it I don't see any enemy hit point bars go down.

    How useful is Celestial Blessing?

    I really like fireflies.

    I'm asking all of these questions because there are specific spells in both trees that I really like, and obviously since they're "opposites" it's harder to train spells in both.

    Thanks
    DTXCF
     
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  2. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    Very useful, Death resistance is good against many types of mages.

    No, unless you do PvP and think you might fight a moon mage, and MAYBE in spindleskog but I'm not 100% certain it works correctly there.

    It should, but I've heard things in the past about height making it miss sometimes.


    This is (relatively) false. Training skills in opposite schools has no impact on the opposite schools, the only thing that CAN happen is training up warding skills will tank your attunement in the school you are warded against, making the spells much weaker, and if you train specialization in a school, you lose some resistance to the other school, which isnt a huge deal especially in PvE.
     
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  3. Lazlo

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    You also have to be careful not to stand too close to enemies when using solar flare or else they won't be inside the damage cone.
     
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  4. DalTXColtsFan

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    THanks for that tip Lazlo I'll try it.

    I'm going to try untraining Moon Warding and see if that helps. There's a couple other spells in the Moon tree that interest me.

    DEFINITELY plan on training up Sun Eater.
     
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  5. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Fair warning, Moon Eater (if that is one of the skills you're considering) isn't really worth it. Sun Eater is nice because the sun is above the horizon every Novian day. A Novian Day is one hour IRL, so extending the time it counts as "up" is regularly useful. That is, if you extend a day by two hours, you're getting an extra five minutes every IRL hour.

    The moon, however, is only above the horizon two weeks of each Novian Month. A Novian Month is a little over one day (28 hours) IRL. So an extra two hours of "moonlight" translates to an extra five minutes every IRL 28 hours. Depending on what time it is when you play, it might not even have any effect at all. So unless you just have a ton of xp just sitting around in your pool, you don't get much bang for your buck so to speak.
     
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  6. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

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    Like, what is the purpose of that skill is it is so randomly situational, why is it so much weaker than the sun, and then why was the fizzle mitigation removed from the shard of night while lunar hours kept if it effectively does nothing?

    The player's guide says nothing about how lunar or solar hours work, and the tool tips are of no help at all in discerning how the skill is supposed to work.

    I really wish one of the devs would set the record straight, and then update the player's guide with this information so players aren't throwing away tens of millions of experience points in futility.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
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  7. Yigg Endimion

    Yigg Endimion Bug Hunter

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    Moon eater and sun eater are meh, negligible bonus, minutes don't matter for either, IMHO. The worship skills take to 80/100, if you have the XP to burn. They are pretty much the same, maybe good for attunement, but even then, 5-10 Str/Dex, depending on time of day, meh, IMHO, who's watching time of day for a 5min or so window? Both of those trees, as far as those passives go, need a rework, IMHO. Like a flat str or other defense stat for sun and a flat dex or defense stat for moon, otherwise, I don't see why they are even skills. Especially, if sun, supposedly has more actual use time than moon, like we need another source of str, not nearly as many skills/spells that apply dex, in that case. Oh and train the hell out of fireflies, if you do physical damage. Anyway, my 2 rambling cents. Hope some of this made sense. Good luck, take care, ping me in game if you see me. Ttfn.
     
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  8. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    *Makes note to self... good info, thx!
    ~TL~
     
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  9. Barugon

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    Moon Eater is especially worthless as the lunar cycle is 14 real hours but the skill only gives you a few real minutes, and it's a 4x skill. Total crap.
     
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  10. Sorgin Txakal

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    What makes it worse is that these skills are huge xp vacuums while players are trying to increase their attunement via their top ten skills.

    In Sun, if you aren't specced, you can ignore one skill which means you still have to dump xp into -pick your favorite 5 - Light, Reveal Hidden, Sun Eater, Phoenix, Elysium Illumination, & Sun Worship :\


    The spec is the only thing that saves sun tree IMO, then at least you can ignore 2 from the above list, but without speccing in sun I just don't find the xp cost worth it when you can raise intelligence in numerous ways while supplementing your strength or dex with an equally valid buff and getting a shield specced as well if you go air or earth.


    With moon you have more skills, so a bit more flexibility in how you can raise your attunement, but the options aren't great either: two skills do not benefit increased leveling (night vision, celestial blessing), an RP Wisp pet, and four skills that focus on stealth - which is probably the mechanic in the game that gets the least love and functional use.


    I've trained moon spec to 100 and unlearned it twice now, I want to badly to love that tree, but of all the magic schools, moon is very probably the weakest when you consider xp investment for functional gains.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
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  11. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    All skills should have value though. If not then they should be removed from the game.
     
  12. Sorgin Txakal

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    This is a huge part of why fire mages are the most powerful in the game. Almost every skill in the tree is useful for a fire mage build, and if you are specced you can chose to ignore fire elemental or ignite weapon which is more in how you want to supplement your already very potent skills.

    What I really hope we will see someday in the future is a balancing of specs, not a balancing of damage via artifact adjustments, but a full top down systemic evaluation of what the spec does for each tree that makes it competitive with others. Chaos spec should be getting some love soon, I would love it if every release some time was spent looking at the least used specs and adjustments of the spec bonuses made to help balance out the game that way.

    There is a huge untapped variety of builds that could be made competitive if some of the justifiably least used specs got some much needed love.
     
  13. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I don't think spec has that much to do with it. If a tree is only good with spec, it's probably garbage in the first place. Ideally, the trees would be changed to be good without specs and better with them, instead of relying on the spec to make them useful.
     
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  14. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    I think that most specializations don't provide enough benefit. As an example, I think that all magic specializations, and not just death, should reduce the fizzle chance of that school.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  15. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    Taming Spec is worth it!
     
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  16. Sorgin Txakal

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    Well this is the problem that was created when specs were introduced. All the trees would be far more balanced if the specs were gone, even if they just rolled the current spec bonuses into all skills, then people would be focusing more on the variety of skills/magics they want to use instead of trying to min max the functionality of a spec to help make a class in what is supposed to be a classless system.


    I know I've said this enough, but I feel it is worth repeating in hopes that the devs one day consider it, but I really feel that - since specs, and thus classes, are here to stay - the way specs function should be reviewed and I currently feel that the best way to resolve some of the biggest balancing issues created would be to allow 3 specs points total: Taking a spec would take up one point, unless you already have a spec in that grouping, at which point it costs 2. The effect of this is that you get one spec from each grouping (1 combat, 1 magic, and 1 strategy) unless you want to create a very specific, but potent, class and double down like Sun & Fire or Taming & Bard.

    I just think it will be a lot more feasible to try to balance out, for example, the Subterfuge tree against just Tactics, Barding, Focus, & Taming - instead of all those, and all the magic trees, and all the combat trees.

    Likewise it would be a lot easier to balance out the moon tree just against the other magic schools, instead of also against ranged, and tactics, and barding, and fire, and subterfuge to somehow make one means of stealth distinct from another since they are competing for a spec slot, and etc.
     
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  17. Barugon

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    Specializations are not the same as classes. Not even close. If they defined classes then you wouldn't be able to use skills in other trees.
    This would be great. Good luck trying to convince the devs though.
     
  18. Sorgin Txakal

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    I mean, if you are fire specced and are using any other means of damage, then (unless you are in the breach) you are only doing it for the challenge or to nerf yourself so you don't make the other party members feel useless. Likewise, if you are specced in shields and often switch to decks that don't use one, then you are just wasting xp.

    It's easy to say that specs don't equate to classes, but just look at the way that everyone describes their builds. The most potent players focus on two specs with maximum synergy to create a class they play, and the players who try to use specs to increase their versatility just have significantly longer to wait before they are as effective against the same mobs people with focused specs waste without effort.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  19. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I suppose that's one way of looking at it. I just feel the problem existed before specs, and using specs to balance out trees that aren't that great is asking for more problems later.
     
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  20. Chiasma

    Chiasma Bug Hunter

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    Solar Flare hardly hit anything that is close to the avatar.

    Most sun skills and spec effect do not scale well with skill levels, or skill level merely add duration which is less useful compare to other magic school.

    Sun Workship should add INT instead of STR. Sun skills focus on INT and Moon skills focus on DEX. Also, there are already many passive skills adding STR more than Sun Work with equal amount of invested experience, such as Bulwark of Earth.
     
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