The Crafted Weapon -> NPC -> Loot loop

Dear Devs,

I was reading The Best Review Ever Written by @Geoff Speldrong and shook up my view of the loot problem.

Here was the kicker from his review:

Yeah. Me neither. Or Viola. Or probably most players. I've never, ever looked at an piece of gear and went "Yay! This is better than what I'm wearing!"

Here's the normal path right now, for bows: Training Bow -> Elven Woodwind Longbow -> Use it forever -> Crazy bow bought which you won't replace for a year or more.

The Elven one being the only drop, and the only drop in your kit for basically the entire time you play the game, occasional artifact being a possible exception.

Loot is hurting because crafters make the best gear. Crafters are hurting because they are expected to subsidize everyone else. Everyone is hurting because A isn't properly plugged into B.



Forgetting those of us who are already crusty, what should the new player experience be?

Ideally (in the "that's how super successful games do it" way) the player goes out, starts knocking heads, gets a Pine Longbow +2, (not exceptional, no MW/E) that is far more powerful than the training bow. They equip it and are now in the fun zone.

Still in the Outskirts, they get some Iron Mace +2's, Copper Halberd +2's and an occasional +3 (exceptional). These were all player crafted items. Their durability is worn down due to the bandit using it on noobs. Most of it goes into the sell/scrap loot pile at that low "Rusty Garbage" loot payout price. But they did get that bow, and maybe some boots +2, and that changed their whole experience.

Enter Tier 1 scenes the player occasionally gets an item with a single masterwork on it. Now they find a copper leather +4! It's exceptional (but with durability damage) and it's got a Dexterity Masterwork on it! Nice! Feel those feels!

They hit Tier 2. They score a Maple Longbow +6! Tier 3, some awesome (for the moment) +8 Leather Leggings! By Tier 4 they start seeing some Constantan, some Supple Leather, some higher end gear showing up.



On and on. At the high end a player will find a super rare (Bachinnal belt rare) Wand of Amazing +18 that @Elrond made. If he sold it when the high end tables needed some wands, he may have made hundreds of thousands of gold on the sale. If not, he lost over having just sold the materials.

Either way, someone got that wand, and it's blew their mind.

I know, the inflation problem. But killing the whole loot cycle (and what does that do to a game?) in order to not kill the game... You just need to find another way to deal with inflation.

You can offset some of it by dialing back the other "stuff" loot. Getting usable gear is more of a rush than getting a little stack of gold, even if it isn't usable by you at the moment. The mere act of checking to see if something is better is a positive experience that indicates a healthy loot cycle.

Additionally, you don't need to keep making more and more artifacts, desperately trying to stay ahead of us. Crafted gear is and always will be the best loot, and it shows up in a delightful variety of forms. Getting the good stuff into the tables is a game changer.

But you've got to start paying a fair price, otherwise it's just going to be trash in the loot tables, forever. Trash in the loot tables means nothing to players. Yes, we slowly save up the gold, but it doesn't compare to pulling on a freshly looted pair of Hardened Leather Boots +10.

If you want the game changer you've got to change the game. The system is already in place, use it!


But don't just throw the gear in bundles and call it good. Get it to the right people.

• Rank the game in a more robust way than how many +'s it has.
  • example: A Rock Maple Longbow with Supple Leather Bowstrings +4 is worth a lot more than a Maple Longbow +10.
• After ranking the gear drop it in an appropriate difficulty scene, never in bundles.
  • The ideal experience is for players to USE gear and then upgrade past it, so it needs to be falling at the right difficulty level

And don't just make up a pay out price and call it good, make this long lasting and dynamic.

• There needs to be a supply of gear making it into the loot tables at all levels. Not just junk, good stuff.
  • An Iron Mace +2 in the Outskirts is a big deal to the new player
• The game needs tables of the current average crafting cost for all gear
  • Average cost is based off the recent average buy/sell cost of raw materials
• The game needs to know which loot tables need more gear at each tier and of each type
  • Pay crafting cost + a markup for gear the game needs
  • Pay less than crafting cost for gear when not needed, all the way down to the current ridiculously low prices if it the tables are saturated with similar gear

We are so close.

 

I read that one also and i wanted to post something there to not make it look so bad but just couldnt . That thread is just that good. I think the biggest problems for new players right now is getting better xp at lower levels and better loot . Hope Port prioritises these 2 issues and finds solutions.

Problem is crafters making good items are not incentivised to sell to npc . Like you said none in their right mind would sell a + 15 or + 20 item with good stats to npc for 300g but i think there are ways to bypass this .

Option 1

Add a crafters store , ingame with crafting components that can only be obtained there. ( Like the pvp store )

Daily quests for crafters - Allow crafters to turn in those awsome items as quests rewards , the better the item the more currency they get to spend in the store .

Quests can be something like .. Greetings traveler ...In order to support the fight against the cabalists we need to arm our soldier with better weapons ... bring us 5 bronze swords with x stats on them and we will reward you for your efforts. Once those items are turned in they end up in the loot tables . Randomise weapons/armor need it..randomised stats need it . make the quest repeatable . Theres no gold involved so theres no need to fear inflation.

Option 2

Allow us to mirror items for a coto cost . This should go hand in hand with reducing item repair with coto just once. Basically if you get a bad ass item you can spend 2-5 coto and make a copy of it ( only one/item allowed ) ... crafter gets 1 copy and one is added automatically in the loot table. None is gonna use coto to mirror crap items so this ensures only good stuff ends up in the loot table. Again no gold involved so no need to worry about inflation.

Ill post some more ideas if i get the time...as for the payout for crafters ... as long as it dont involve gold its a good idea , otherwise the minute game starts paying out 1000g for a plate chest instead of 300 ...it sets the market price for ore and gold making loopholes are created.

Great post with great insights Vlad .

 

I like this one. I think it would be a great way to get a lot of the items sitting on people's "junk" piles out into the game.

Might also help me get my crafting level up as it is very sad looking compared to my adventure level