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The Grind

Discussion in 'Release 24 Feedback' started by Poor game design, Nov 19, 2015.

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  1. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Avatar

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    That was multiple groups fighting each other that spontaneously had a more pressing interest in killing you, go figure. It is multiplayer online, most people put in the effort to form at least one friendship or at the very least a temporary alliance to prepare for a open PVP zone.
     
  2. Poor game design

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    I don't think this is about "my playstyle" I think it's about reality. I don't think the majority of players in this game are level 70, do you? I also don't think the majority of players have the kind of time that a handful of players testing this game seem to have.

    So who's actually defending their playstyle here? For me, even if I had endless time I would want the environment to be fair. I wouldn't personally want some kind of weird meta advantage over everyone else in the game that attempts to fight me.

    Of course, as I stated earlier I would be happy to pay for levels since I have no alternative to compete.
     
  3. Poor game design

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    Well that's a completely different issue. Perhaps owning the largest PVP town in the game will afford me a few alliances? Maybe even enough to never PVP myself (if this systems stays the way it is, I could certainly see that happening).

    But back on topic, regardless of the Group vs. Me reality...I couldn't have killed even a single one of you (likely) because I'm a mere level 41. There are only so many hours in a day, and as we all know, the better you are at wasting them the better you should be in PVP combat.
     
  4. StrangerDiamond

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    It "baffles" me that noone understands you, Xorinia warned me about this period in time... they called it : The era of the loss of wordsztzs.

    Stay safe dear Baron :) your woes will end... with or without me :)

    Good morning :)
     
  5. Themo Lock

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    The adventures of BDF..a very short novella set amidst the backdrop of an empty metro crammed full of row houses at 2 FPS where all NPC are guards and the only rule is..don't kill BDF or you get evicted. "We make our own fate Wilson, we make our own fate.".
     
  6. Poor game design

    Poor game design Avatar

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    First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.

    I think Gandhi had it right.
     
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  7. Elwyn

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    I'm going to have to put a vote in for "it's your play style, BDF". I was new in R20 and got up to the AL40ish range before the R21 skills wipe, then it got a lot harder to kill stuff solo. Once I finally reached AL40-ish in R23, I hit the wall where the pre-wipe XP bonus stopped. Now I've slowly reached AL45. I would say that the two main reasons are one, I didn't have months of backlog of play that others have had to keep my 4X bonus going, and two, playing mostly solo. It gets harder to find stuff that doesn't triple-team you, yet still gives you enough XP per kill to advance at a decent rate.

    And also I've switched a lot of my fighting to farm skeletons for metal scrap for making copper/iron ingots to keep up with my excess of ores. Because mining goes too well with keeping up on the forums.

    So based on my own experience, I would say that not having gotten much XP in earlier releases is part of his problem, and going solo is another part.
     
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  8. Leffy

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    "This isn't a video game son, it really isn't." couldn't resist to get that line in, been waiting forever! One of my all time movie favorites.... Of course I defend the current system-it makes sense to me and works for everyone. Well, everyone except you I suppose. I don't get to play nearly as much as others or as much as I'd like too, but I make my time count and realize it for what it is. I won't be able to do all the things a 15 year old without a family/job can do-and I'm okay with that. I either try harder to find a solution or move on. Welcome to life. There are reasons I don't play other games such as Halo and don't really care to compare games, but yes, the more you play madden football the better you get..Just enjoy the game for what it is-no way a married man with 4 kids is going to be able to compete on the same level as these youngsters with less responsibilities. Unless your an insomniac....only 24 hours in a day.
     
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  9. Solazur

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    WOW, I wasn't sure at first if I was reading correctly so I put it on simmer before making a reply.
    Dude (BDF the OP) what you need is a load of cheese for all your whine!
    Seriously, your statement would be like me saying life's not fair because Bill Gates and I are the same age but I'm not as rich as he is. Or to put it another way, I should just go sign up for welfare because Zuckerburg made it to a $Billion before I did.

    Oh... as you are probably aware... in both of those guys cases... there were already plenty of very accomplished business people out there; that didn't stop their rise.

    You wanna get better? Put in more time! You don't want to do any PvE? Cool... go find others who will just spar you to level.

    Everybody has "stuff" in their RL worlds dude...Hell I'm no spring chicken (yes I AM the same age as Bill) I stay at home raising my 2 youngest kids... 1 aged 3 (she's counts x4 trust me) and 1 aged 8 months. My wife gets home... hey dude...family time. My real "play" time is mostly late night or if I catch a moment during naps. I belong to a great guild with some active folks (like uhh Themo for example) who are more than willing to group but my circumstances don't often let me join for group activity.It's hard to group when you can't spend dedicated time.

    With that I have my main char at level 46, a new mage who is 22 I think and my trusty crusty craft dude who is also 22.

    Know what? I'm having a good time. THAT is why *I* play....to derive enjoyment...

    I'm not saying every aspect of the game in it's current state is perfectly optimized/balanced but, I also appreciate that I am helping to shape the world even in my own small way cuz YO BRO... It's PRE-alpha. That in itself is cool.

    I don't get what universe your thinking is from but perhaps you are just "lookin for love in all the wrong places"?

    Why not try to figure out how to create enjoyment GIVEN your circumstances??

    If you can't do that... you will note there are those on the forums offering their services to assist those who wish to liquidate their accounts; you have that option as well. This would free you up to find that perfect situation you seek. Oh if you do find the elusive golden grail that would make you happy according to what you've stated in this post... PLEASE post your findings here so others who feel the same can also find happiness (and leave the rest of us to suffer in our deluded states of enjoyment)

    Last thought... and I don't mean to be rude but....if you'd spent half as much time playing as you've spent on this non-starter post you could have gotten at least 1 level I'd think.

    Peace
     
  10. Poor game design

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    I'm not speaking for anyone but myself. But I think that means you shouldn't speak for anyone but yourself too. Neither you nor I know what "everyone" wants.
     
  11. Poor game design

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    Great, you'd have no problem with me buying levels with real cash in the add-on store then? Is that your argument?
     
  12. Leffy

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    Fair enough, I don't speak for everyone-that's just from my perspective. If that's your only issue with my post(s), I'll take it. Best of luck.
     
  13. Aartemis

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    Is this all a grind, or are some people just too obsessed with having "complete" or "competitive" characters in 30-60 days??

    In this world of instant gratification, perhaps its not so bad to just take time out to do many things. Pick a pumpkin, view a vista, or take a road less traveled. It does not always have to be the fastest way. Sure plunking on a gustball can make things happen fast, but is that the way you really want to spend your game time? After all this time?

    I have already invested so much in the game, I HOPE it takes me a LONG time to develop my skills and character. I don't want to hit 70 in 2 weeks and then spend the next 30 days heads down grinding away to become GM. Some people do, I get it... but for me it's the Journey and I am OK with it taking a long while.

    I would rather it take me a year to skill up then only have it take 30 days. Then what? Twiddle my thumbs with nothing fun to do or look forward to while I wait for EP2. Sure, I can prance around with my GM title and defeat the content without a blink but I'm not sure that is the best way for me. Some of my BEST memories of UO was the Journey and how I had to work each day over a long time get where I wanted to be.

    Everyone has their own timetable and opinions. This is mine, and I'm sure tons will disagree. However until I see ALL the content and all the possibilities of what and how I can progress... talking about how this is a "grind" is a bit premature, and if I may be so bold, a catalyst that could cause lost focus...something the Devs do not need right now. The content is MAYBE 15% done, how can it even be judged?
     
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  14. Solazur

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    Well that's certainly a twist on what I said but, proves (to me at least) that we are in entirely different universes.
    Is your real grip that you can't buy levels?; why don't you put out an offer to pay somebody to level your char then?

    You'll have to excuse me.. I have no further time for this nonsense.. I'm logged IN the game
     
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  15. Poor game design

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    You make perfectly reasonable observations, Aartemis.

    The one thing I'd like to say in response is that I'm not playing this game to grind. I'm playing to PVP and RP. So that's the disconnect from where I'm at as a player. The act of grinding is a requirement to PVP on any type of competitive level or to RP effectively the type of character I'd like to play. It's not that I don't want to "put the work in" it's that I'm not capable. It's just like if you told someone the only way to level is to pay $5000 and they didn't have enough money. Sure, they could save up enough money eventually over time, but who wants to do that just so they can enjoy the parts of the game they care about?

    When we talk about buying a lot deed in SOTA (as a comparison example) we still make lot deeds available to players in-game, and lot deeds have no determining factor in PVP success, nor does it prevent someone from RPing whatever it is they wish to RP.
     
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  16. Phiedrus Oliva

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    In *other* pvp game I know, you get 80% of the skill in the first 20% of the time, so that the one who levels up constantly is always on the top, but the newest player will become competitive in a short time. That is good for everybody. Is it like that in SOTA or is it linear?
     
  17. Poor game design

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    No, I actually don't think that players should be able to buy levels with cash any more than they buy them with time. The point I'm making is that time = money.

    For EXAMPLE....
    See, I can't do that right now. I'm at work, and I have limited time where I can take a break and post here. I can't log into the game at work, I don't get paid for that. I would also get fired. So it's not like it's an option for me to do that.

    But to your point above, yes I suppose I could pay someone to level my account while I'm at work and taking care of my kids, and living a life outside of SOTA. Or we could make a game where that's not really necessary because we don't put an unreasonable advantage on time? Just like we're making a game where we don't let people buy levels, for the same reason - it's not good.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  18. Poor game design

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    It is nothing like that at the moment. Currently the more you play (kill things) the higher your level. There is a soft curve as you hit level 100, so yes players that have less time can eventually "catch up" to a more competitive level, but the people that play non-stop still have a noticeable advantage. It is estimated that the difference between normal playing and power gaming is somewhere between 4 months to a full year at the moment.

    So if you're a normal player, you literally can't compete in PVP for at least the first 4 months (if not longer) after launch and that assumes you're grinding A LOT.
     
  19. Rasmenar

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    This is an ages-old argument in the world of online gaming in general.

    There are a couple of well-established facts as far as online gaming goes:
    If progression is too fast, people get bored faster.
    If progression is too slow, people get discouraged and quit.
    If someone has more time to play than you do, they WILL progress faster (There hasn't been a single online RPG that I can think of where this isn't the case).

    If you're looking to have a life but also want to be competitive in an online game, you're going to have to understand something. You will never fully catch up to people who have time to play hardcore. It doesn't matter what Portalarium does to the game, hardcore players will always have an advantage over you. Even if you could hit "level cap" at the same speed as them by playing casually, they'd have more gold than you, better gear than you, more backup gear than you, stronger pets than you, and probably be part of a group of people who have the same (or close to the same) amount of time to play as they do. On top of that, they've had more time spent online to practice so there's a good chance they'll be more skilled than you as well.

    I myself managed to hit level 51 and I haven't been playing a whole lot, what with getting married, medical issues and the release of Fallout 4 (70 hours in so far, I'll be playing more once the next patch comes out) as well as development on a pet project. About the only things I can't do right now are take on the named troll and the Dragon, or hold a control point solo for more than about 5 minutes. I know full well that I am very behind a lot of the top players, but I'm about average as far as non-hardcore players go.

    I think you are correct in saying that most people don't break level 40, because quite a lot of people play each release long enough to mess around with new stuff, pick up the grand tour hats, then wait for next release to hop on and do it again. As far as consistently active players though, I'd be willing to bet that most of them at this point are at least in the 40-50 range.
     
  20. Waxillium

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    At this point if I was to decide to be concerned I'd do it from the vantage of the truly new player experience.
    Will the current system of "You gotta work hard for your in game skills" be well received?
    If 10 new people said no then that it would be time to revisit the process.

    Why don't you run level based or hit point based PvP tourneys?
     
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