The last 20%

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vladamir Begemot, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Cirsee

    Cirsee Avatar

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    I couldn't agree more with the OP.

    I would add brewing to that list of not finished... there was a bit of hype originally with mentioned buffs and such. We all anticipated a new crafting table or sorts.. and then we got to brew on our stoves and store in a decorative cask and no buffs of any sort. So much missed potential there.

    Seasonal creatures.. while death bunny has some actual real quest associated to it.. the others have just a "go out and find it" and a tad of lore.. there really needs to be a bit more meat to the quest and an actual reward outside of coin (for example, rescue some Krampus captured kids (or put their zombie selves to eternal rest), a quest to discover what made Envy Angel so jealous about Valentine's day before encountering her (pre kill quests with some back story you learn in phases, etc.). This seems to be a good part of what is wrong with the quests in the game.

    Quest world influence.... while we have quest that show us the virtues, we don't really see much of how those virtues are changing the areas involved or the whole world in general. We have these towns under siege.. shouldn't the areas around, or even the internal town itself, have some effect or scared NPCs, shops? Again cool idea, but just not quite there. The Oracle.. shouldn't she or her watchers have a bit more of an influence or presence?

    Housing is a big thing for me too.. I should be able to shrink or grow objects and add more placement ability. The blocks don't allow all things on them.. interactive mini games and more interactive objects.. I can't tell you how much I loved that the toilet was flushable and how cool that looked (kudos guys). The wind powered objects, Moon towers and other kobold power generators.. uhm weren't they supposed to be good for something? The kobold steam punk think was really cool, bring that back. Where is our ability to drop stuff and have other players pick it up? Feasts I can serve a group without having to trade with them. I think the housing system is one of the most unique features of games out there.. We shouldn't leave the award to EQ2 and Rift every year gang.

    Single player offline game… this is just in really sad shape.

    Sadly this is a lot of stuff and I am sure we could all go on and I doubt Port has the finances left for it all. To be fair we have an amazing and thoughtful team; you guys deserve some serious praise for the burst of heart and amazing things you can find in the game. However, it lacks that finished direction feel and system polish that even an Indie title should have in expected places, let alone in a few showcase systems you really want to stand out about the game. Right now you are trying to sell $8k pledges.. but are you giving people $8k of entertainment value? Is RMT and "expensive game" the only standout features you want your game to be remembered for?
     
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  2. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Not sure....no wait, absolutely sure that calling SC in an "unfinished stuff" post really isn't a good idea ^^
     
  3. Katu

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    As mentioned, "done" in this context refers to agile methods, where team itself has to define what it means. What ever we see here, is what they see as done, ready to release. It does not mean that feature is fully complete, it means that the requirement of the ticket ( JIRA), that defines a task ( or user story, bug, feature, epic etc) are fullfilled and ticket can be moved to "done" column/state. I bet there's lots of tickets around about "phase x of fishing/combat/housing/crafting/younameit", that contains all the final steps to polish it, with detailed done requirements, but none have time to do those..
    Refactoring UI and quest will not bring money in now, thats why they can't do it now, with full priority atleast. Instead, they rush in new systems, to get something to sell, to keep money coming. Makes sense and I certainly can understand that, other option would be to end it..
    But, for reason unknown, I came back to play this and I'm having good time, for now.

    My few tips for the devs:
    • Monetization options are bad now ( from my point of view )
      • I have no long term goal to start pushing hundreds of euros to any game, ever. ( No 7k bundles for me )
      • I have no need for anykind of decorations. ( not into sims, not paying 500€ to decorate my home, when we need new kitchen table IRL )
      • I use obsidian pots, so maybe more of those? ( Out of combat movement speed increase, xp cap raising 2x ( to 2M/hour ), allways day potion, etc..)
      • Subscription should be more juicy, month long obsidian pots ( 2-3 ), maybe drop cotos away.
      • Figure a way to drain excess Cotos from game, none buys from shop, when players sell them cheaper. ( I'm very against p2w, but for once, I could accept trading x amount Cotos > xp, but the price has to be high and one time deal or something.)
        • Obviously, when shops go fully ingame, this is starting to sort out a bit
      • (summary: There's not that much on where I could even spend my money, give me something to buy!)
    • Communicate more!
     
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  4. ShurTugal

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    This right here. I really don't understand what they were thinking with the "good enough is good enough" mentality with these two systems. They absolutely should have been perfect before full release or pretty darn close. 99% worse case and the choice to begin a new dungeon system before these two were complete baffles me. Mind you I like the dungeon system and bought one of the 125 point bundles from the add on store (I think it was 125 points.. either way it was the largest one) but I still say that system shouldn't be in yet with all the other stuff where its at.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
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  5. ShurTugal

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    you know. I am tired of this excuse. That is NOT to say that I don't understand small teams and enormous expectations put on them because I do but at the end of the day you don't ship a product that is not complete I guess is the word I will use.
    I also agree that the devs have done a lot with what they have but to work with but it also feels to me like they get a system up to a point and then they stop and move on to something else before they should. This approach just causes negative reviews and a negative spiral from there. I continue to support them in their endeavor. I support with my monetary investment which keeps growing all the time. heck in a week when I get paid (or slightly thereafter) that monetary investment is going up by another 250 dollars when I upgrade my tax fee village deed to a tax free town deed and I support them as a streamer who took a short break but is now back to streaming their game on a regular basis but these conversations need to be had and I truly hope they are actually listening to these @Chris @DarkStarr
     
  6. ShurTugal

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    what he/she said :) :)
     
  7. ShurTugal

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    I get this but let me give you an analogy that I think of when I think of this approach. your on a boat that is taking on water. Your boat has a pump that could remove the incoming water fast enough to keep you afloat until you get to shore and you repair the boat but its broke (ie not complete). Instead of allowing a little water to come in and take time to repair the pump you keep sticking fingers in the holes in the boat hoping to stop the water from coming in but its not working and you keep taking on more water and more water until you sick. At what point do you stop "rushing in new systems to get something to sell" and actually create an amazing, complete (subjectively speaking from the point of the customer because in the end they are all that matter) game???????? That is the question.
     
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  8. Katu

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    When this current path ends creating somekind of value for share holders.
     
  9. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Shareholder Value is all cool and froody but there are specific situations and locations to discuss them. My personal feeling is: that's not here.
    Game feedback on the other hand, be it negativ or positiv, of course belongs here.
     
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  10. Katu

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    I posted my feedback up there, constructive, I might add.
    However, many will never understand the effort required to actually plan and develop something and the fact, that it takes time. Even the smallest things can take time (time=money) and money is what is needed to do it, thus we have a nice spiral here :)
     
  11. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Never said the opposite.
    Sorry if it came across like that.
    I am at work and need to keep my posts brief ^^
     
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  12. CarlNZ

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    The thing with the excuse people use of 'the team is small, funding is limited' is that, if you don't have the funds or the personnel then your scope is far too big and there needs to be some serious paring down to create a product that matches the available resources. Do less better rather than more and more that can't be seen through to polished fruition.
     
  13. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    No paring down needed.
    Clear and sharp focus is what we need.
     
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  14. Sea Bear

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    SOTA map has not worked as intended since they took it over? ? I drifted away from the game, and never really got their reasoning why? It was way cool at one point. I would really like to update my POT map for other players!
    I hate to even post on this topic, it seems like the same old, same old, patterns, nothing changes. plus I am often just not that knowledgeable a lot of time on various parts of the game. I might be guilty of the *80% and done rule myself.
     
  15. Caernarvon

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    I think they knew full well way before launch that the quest system and journal would need not just an overhaul/revamp but would need completely redoing from scratch to be something more along the lines of what one might expect from more modern MMO's, well in fact most MMO's over the last 15 years, EQ2 being a prime example in my experience and opinion. Coupled with performance, which in my experience has come on leaps and bounds in the last year compared to its previous state, and the UI, the questing and journal system together with the endless amount of unused NPC's in the world have been my biggest issue with the game. That's not to say that LB's idea of keeping it old school in terms of being able to actually text chat to NPC's couldn't remain (and keep the keywords system there too - although all that part of the UI needs a serious look at as well - visually it's a mess imho), on the contrary it very much definitely should stay for those who enjoy that - its nice to be able to immerse in that way.

    But I can't see any other reason, other than time. money / available resources, why the questing and journal system hasn't, so far, been done far far better to bring it in line with the type of systems found in other MMO's. And when they have a good system in place they will be able to pump out quests like there's no tomorrow with ease, if they so choose, for those who want them (and worth bearing in mind not everyone does want quests in a sandbox game - but I think they definitely appeal to a large amount of the playerbase - so there should aways be a good amount there to get stuck into - and largely shouldn't be compulsory to do either for those that aren't interested in quests). From mundane 'kill 10 rats' type of quests for a bit of coin/xp, and 'fetch me this, carry me that' delivery type quests to get one acquainted with the world, through to much more deep multi-staged quests that take you all over the world that require multiple boss kills, crafted items, x amount of creature kills, riddles and the like, which can reward amazing items, through to crafting related quests, daily quests (though personally I hate these and find games can become a chore with them), lore quests, faction quests, language quests... allsorts - it will be a great way to pump in easy additional content for years to come and be a good additional way of retaining players for years to come - especially if it will tie in with an achievements system which I've heard mention of on the cards. And of course all of this will help flesh out the world - after all there's a gazillion unused NPC's in quite an expansive world that really don't have any purpose right now and are making parts of the world feel empty and fake.

    I'm sure this is all probably part of their long-term gameplan for the future, but they've got to get the backbone of it done. Reason they haven't... imho undoubtedly the time, cost / resources it takes to put in a modern quest / journal system - they clearly haven't had the resources to focus on it... otherwise they would have simply done it by now. It's almost like some people think they can't be bothered or something. I'm sure the high-ups are all well aware it's in their own best interest to get this system sorted to retain players and draw more in for the games long-term future and consequently their own personal long-term financial outlook. But things like this aren't low-hanging fruit.

    With regards to the dungeon system, to be fair I don't think it has had a huge amount of resources allocated to it from everything they've intimated about it. It's seemingly built off the back of the housing and basement system with obviously some additional coding added to it for placement and the like. Whereas a new quest / journal system will take months to get in place, will require extensive db work, and tools to help them create and quickly deploy quests with ease (which could ultimately be reworked for players to use to create their own quests in the future) and likely require far more people to work on it. Player-made dungeons are of course a great concept that once fully fleshed out will undoubtedly give SotA another *fairly* unique selling point, especially when you consider its potential once fully realised. They've clearly had the brainwave, and put together a so far rudimentary system (though I feel confident it will get fleshed out in time - again it's in their financial interest to do so, and I'm sure they're absolutely aware of that) and they've done so in order to quickly generate additional extra revenue from it, all of which can further help fund the game and hopefully get some more hands on deck to work on things like a new questing system / journal.
     
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  16. Kain Darkmoor

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    These are all just the same things people have been criticizing for months if not years. If they haven't been able to fix these issues when they had the time and money, they certainly aren't going to be able to fix them now with a skeleton crew. Not saying the game won't get better but people need realistic expectations at this point.
     
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  17. Spungwa

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    I like this list, in that order. Assuming the quest system includes the journal too.

    I would inject the recipe book after GUI though. Hopefully the journal and recipe book have huge technical overlap anyway.

    I would however agree with what they are currently doing prioritising the demand for COTOs and the store. Sorting out the Monetising of the game hopefully allows for the rest. First and foremost this needs to be a viable product money wise.

    Regards
    Spung
     
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  18. Cora Cuz'avich

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    You'll be able to read all about the Envy Angel in Blade of the Avatar Vol. 2!
     
  19. Spungwa

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    I'm hoping the deed upgrades for COTOs will address this, to my mind this is continual demand. If people have spare COTOs, or spare gold they can buy COTOs from other players, and upgrade deeds (as well as other things, but deed upgrades are larger numbers). Once a deed get completely upgraded to the point the player wants, I think most will just buy a second with COTOs and repeat.

    It allows people to do this incrementally with small purchases of COTOs over time or buy from players that again only need to make small purchases to buy COTOs and sell them to other players if they want gold without the grind.


    Regards
    Spung
     
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  20. Humbert_Humbert

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    Problem is there are no funds to be raised by finishing what you started. However, if we introduce a new concept such as player made dungeons they can get a lot of new money thrown at the game.

    Now let's see if they ever completely finish and polish dungeons or just move on to another concept.
     
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