Too many online modes/too much instancing gives appearance of abandoned

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Razimus, Jul 26, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Razimus

    Razimus Avatar

    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    3,240
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This thread is an idea I've had on how the players of this game, within the game, can be united, causing the game's success to grow, I've noticed it for a while now, just haven't said anything due to things being shot down, but I want the game to be better so I'll mention it, it's inspired by Starr Long saying the following in a recent post,

    Please let me illustrate why more than 1 online mode is causing this entire game to appear as an abandoned wasteland. This isn't a problem with offline mode, but it is a big problem with there being too many online modes.

    To summarize (For those who won't read further, trust me, the logic is flawless, less online modes equals more players seeing each other, the more players that see each other see an active game, the more players that see an active game invite their friends, the more players that invite their friends, and it's a snowball effect, it's the reason why older MMOs snowballed into larger player bases, because player saw other players instead of an abandoned wasteland which is what I see when I login to SotA, and this doesn't have to be the case, if there was only 1 online mode, I'd see the players that were in the same locations I was at, as it is now, they're in a parallel dimension/instance and they might as well not exist, which is discouraging and I don't login as much because no one else is there).

    Let's focus on the online modes that exist.

    [​IMG]

    Open. (Where you can see other players! Awesome! [except in private dungeons])

    Party. (Where you can only see a few party members, cool, except when you're in town restocking, training, waiting for the party to group up, looking for more party members, you can't see who else is walking around because you're in a limited instance)

    Private. (Perhaps this was added to motivate farmers who want to farm, there are already tons of private instances of every type of map for farming, defeating the purpose, the fact is this kills the game, as these players won't ever see anyone else, this mode would be perfect for botters)

    The Benefit of Consolidating Online Modes/Instances into 1 Mode/Instance;

    When you are in a town you see other players.

    The Disadvantage of Having Many Online Modes/Instances;

    You never see other players, the game looks and feels like an abandoned wasteland, it is not fun, especially for the players like me, who login to an online game, for the exclusive purpose of interacting with other players online, chatting, dancing, partying, all can take place in 1 mode, even ignoring, going solo, that too can take place in 1 mode, everything under the sun can take place in 1 mode, and it's much funner of a game when it's 1 mode trust me. I've played countless online games in the past 22 years and I can say without a doubt, SotA has more instancing, more online modes than any game I've ever played, and it's the reason you see few players on the same screen as yourself. The impression a new player is left with after playing this game for 1 hour is this, "Wow, this game looks empty", when that new player sees 1 or 2 or 3 players in 1 hours time, they see that as a low number, when in fact there are 10, 20 or 30 players potentially in the same locations, just in different instances of the same location, just in different modes of the same location, when you seriously consider the ramifications of dividing players into such a great number of instances and modes, causing the game to appear as an abandoned wasteland, it doesn't feel online, it feels as though the entire game is offline, at best it feels like a peer to peer game in the era of the very first Doom game, when you'd call up your friends and dial them up into your modem so you could play with that small select few friends, short of lessening the many modes and instances a player can choose online, the game will always appear smaller than it really is. I know there are more players in X city, yet it appears as though I'm the only player in the entire city, please consider this, it's not a good idea, it's a great idea, if seeing other players when you enter a city is important to you.

    What is observable is a fact, feel free to disagree with the want to change anything, but you can't disagree with the fact that this is what the modes look like, and if more players were in open mode, you would see more players, new players would see more players and see this as a more populated game. It's all about the new players, this game needs new players.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Like that carrot on the ground if you don't incentivize players to even want to play open mode, they'll play another mode, but the more players that play open mode, the more alive and populated this game will be. I'd personally choose to eliminate and consolidate but, perhaps an incentive is an alternative. If I logged in for the first time as a new player I'd feel the game was fairly empty, this doesn't have to be the case, the first impression is the most important for new players, we need new players to populate this game.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  2. MFWalter

    MFWalter Avatar

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas, USA
    I have suggested an ability to set your default online mode based on the type of zone to combat the same instance. We would keep the ability to change modes, but you could set towns to default to open and adventuring to default to party so that if you load into a town it will automatically load in open mode, but when you load into an adventuring it will automatically load you into party mode. This would allow people to still hunt without fighting over spawns, but see each other back in town.
     
  3. CatweazleX

    CatweazleX Avatar

    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    759
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    May it is not known that you get 10% less xp when in private or party mode. When you flagged PvP this are 20% less then in open mode.
     
  4. Mishra

    Mishra Avatar

    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SoCal
    I’ve never heard about 10% xp reduction in party mode. Could you please send me a link to this information.
     
  5. TheBalance

    TheBalance Avatar

    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    540
    Trophy Points:
    40
    Compare xp gaing in, and out of party in the same location, against the same enemy. It's easily verifiable.
     
    Fionwyn Wyldemane likes this.
  6. TheBalance

    TheBalance Avatar

    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    540
    Trophy Points:
    40
    @OP this is far from the first time this has been brought up, unfortunately the modes we currently have are ingrained into the very fabric of SOTA and are likely unable to be removed without a serious commitment of resources. As for disabling some of them, you'd likely fragment the player base more, and you'd undeniably have players quit once they're forced to compete with others for resources on maps.
     
  7. Metalocalypze

    Metalocalypze Avatar

    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Australia (UTC/GMT +8 hours)
    I agree with what Razimus is saying but under the current game system one high level player could clear a zone almost instantly before any other player could farm anything within that same zone

    I wish it was just one big open world but from my understanding that’s not what LB is wanting in his vision
     
  8. FrostII

    FrostII Avatar

    Messages:
    4,801
    Likes Received:
    9,596
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    I could see both the Overworld and towns as Multiplayer, and adventure scenes as Party or Private.
    As long as there aren't so many avatars in a single scene that lag becomes an issue which, in it's current state, it would.
    I wish adventure scenes could be as well, but the resources are not set up to accommodate lots of people.
    If they could fix the # of players in a scene without causing an overload (and they are and have been working on this aspect), then that problem would be fixed.
    But they would still have to find a way to have lots of people in the same scene looking for resources without running out of those resources.
     
  9. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    12,164
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    I like my private online mode.
     
  10. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    5,683
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    That's like many others things hidden knowledge the game lacks to Display.
    It was about 1,5 years ago when this was applied.
    The first Iteration was 20% for beeing flagged, what was splittet into 10% for beeing mmo mode and 10% for beeing pvp flagged.
     
    Brugas likes this.
  11. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    5,683
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    This Discussion only leads to dispute again.
    Some lime SP ,some like mmo, some consists it's selective Multiplayer and everything is an option you cannot take away.

    SotA is no MMORPG it's Selective Multiplayer!
    There is a MMORPG part you can login, but nobody forces you.

    If you take something away you reduce the playerbase.
    Those who dont like to be online and want to play SP online or only with friends in FMO will stop playing if forced into MMO.
    The whole community exists of
    I like A
    I Like B
    I like C
    ....
    Some like A + C
    Some like B+C
    But nobody likes A+B and C

    Solution to get more players is add D, E and F...

    Add options to approach the Game in more ways, options to find how you want to play it.
    This way you may get also more players for mmo mode, because some of the players may come becaue of SPO or FMO first and try out MMO, like it and stay or switch from time to time.

    I suggested a Hardcore (UO) Mode with limited trees and hard cap at 100 in the wishlist section.
    A mode for those who like it more restricted, roleplayish and UO Sandbox like.

    The other thing is polish the Game.
     
  12. Deana Beretta

    Deana Beretta Avatar

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I think Walter has the right of it (and I've commented on his suggestions in the feature requests forums).
    I think the 3 settings we have right now are fine, but it would be nice if we could link them to zone types.
    Also, is there any difference between party and private? If you really wanted to be alone, would you accept a party invite? Does being in private mode block party invites? Genuinely curious on that.
    Regardless, people have their reasons for choosing the mode they want to play in. Maybe some people genuinely want to be alone. Maybe people on older machines struggle to deal with other players. Maybe people don't want any competition when they are farming for something in particular (ore nodes, trees, certain enemy types, etc...).

    For me, personally, I tend to leave my game settings in party mode. That way I avoid competition when farming, and I can group up with my guild mates if they want to get a group together. But this really only effects adventure zones. However, when I enter the world map, or any town (POT or NPC), I'd rather the game would toggle to open so that I could see other players. Possibly have a conversation. As it stands now, I don't want to take the additional minute+ to change the setting after already waiting through a load screen. It would be better if the setting could be automatically changed during the load, based on the options I've selected (party when loading into adventure zones, public when loading into map/towns). As long as people have the option to tweak the settings to their preferences (always private, always public, whatever you like), I don't see the harm in something like this.
     
    MFWalter likes this.
  13. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    5,683
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    I asked 2 years ago if they can make it the way you can choose before any instance change.
    So if i go weherever and have to load it, be it OWM, PoT, City or Scene it would ask you what mode you want to login.

    Well i guess if it would be easy to implement they would do it. We can already choose entrances.
    So there seems to be some techincal barrier to that or its just not that easy to do.
    Therefore it will consume Developer time and costs what they need elsewhere prioritized.
     
  14. Mac2

    Mac2 Avatar

    Messages:
    3,102
    Likes Received:
    7,869
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Personally, I like that things are instanced, when a new item or quest comes out, everyone can do it right away instead of having a huge bunch of players all in one place waiting to do it, ksing each other to do it, sometimes freaking out on each other. UT would become a warzone of ksers as there would only be one to run in. OH you want to kill dragons? Thats too bad, someone is already here killing it, and they are much more powerful then you, and you cannot win in a ks fight, I guess no dragons for you till they are done. Oh that quest item was already looted by someone else, wait 15 minutes for instance reset AND hope no one else joins it in that time and resets the reset timer. Sounds like this would cause more division and be more of a pain in the ass.

    Maybe it should be up to us to have the insight to realize people can play in party or single player mode, therefore we are not seeing everyone whos playing.
     
  15. Gorthyn

    Gorthyn Avatar

    Messages:
    615
    Likes Received:
    1,496
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I think party/private mode is fine for scenes for those that want it but strongly support the idea of the overworld being open only.
     
    FrostII and disorder like this.
  16. Elwyn

    Elwyn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    4,653
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    It's the other way around. There is a 10% adventuring XP bonus for being in open mode and another 10% for being in PvP on top of that (when in an open scene).

    Also, it has been true for some time (even before persistence) that what are now called Party and Private are functionally equivalent. There is a mode of some scenes where you are forced solo, but it is not affected by the mode you choose.

    And I'm going to agree with those who think a "party except in towns/overworld" mode is a good idea, even if I wouldn't use it much. That should replace one of the existing three choices.
     
  17. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck Avatar

    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    829
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I thought the way they designed SotA was to be “serverless”.

    Does this serverless design still apply in the overworld? Or only in towns and scenes?

    And has there been any real stress test of how many players can be together in 1 scene?

    Because what if the scene host player is using a 386 12MHz computer with 4MB of RAM? lol

    Let’s do a test! Can we setup a time for this weekend and everyone go to Central Brittany! :D
     
    econner likes this.
  18. ErikRulez

    ErikRulez Avatar

    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I like this idea or even just the city/town scenes since if people want to hit overland encounters their may not be enough of the right type of encounter to go around.

    I've been in MMOs with group zones and there are always problems of people claiming spots or farming bosses and it is just a mess and is not fun to me when I run into that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
    Scanphor, FrostII and Woodchuck like this.
  19. ErikRulez

    ErikRulez Avatar

    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Trophy Points:
    93
    300 baud modem?
     
    Woodchuck likes this.
  20. Terrence Phillip

    Terrence Phillip Avatar

    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    726
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    +1 to that. Would love to see your suggestion realised. Having an option to default to online mode in the overworld or NPC/POT would be a huge plus to the game and making the game world seem more inhabited (which would add a lot to the game IMO). @DarkStarr @Chris Please :)
     
    Boris Mondragon likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.